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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

  1. #451
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    In what universe does the Commander in Chief need to appease the military in order to maintain their support in a time of war?

    He doesn't need your support. He needs your obedience. Are you going to withhold your obedience while we're fighting two wars in the middle east?
    You don't understand these things because you tend to go extreme. It's not a matter of defiance. It's a matter of support. President Clinton had a very hard time with military support due to his lack of experience, which was compounded by his quest to alter social structure in the military. He was met with immediate friction and was criticized at all levels officiall and unofficially. He was constantly seeking support when it came to military matters. If you think I'm like you and just spout off baseless opinions you can read all about it in this book: America Between the Wars.

    Presidents very much need military support in times of war. A General was recently fired because of his voiced opinions criticizing the Administration. Imagine an entire military aggrivated. Clinton saw it first hand and Obama isn't as stupid as to pretend this history doesn't exist.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Morale is as much the CIC's responsibility, as anyone else's, in the chain of command. The CIC can't afford to inact decisions that could possibly destroy morale.
    5.In July 1993, Rand researchers at the National Defense Research Institute, a think tank founded by the Air Force, completed a study commissioned by Defense Secretary Les Aspin. Prepared by over 70 social scientists based on evidence from six countries and data analyses from hundreds of studies of cohesion, concluded that sexual orientation alone was “not germane” in determining who should serve. Rand found that “none of the militaries studied for this report believe their effectiveness as an organization has been impaired or reduced as a result of the inclusion of homosexuals.” In Canada, where the ban had just ended, Rand found “no resignations (despite previous threats to quit), no problems with recruitment, and no diminution of cohesion, morale, or organizational effectiveness.” The same conclusions were reached about Israel. The study reported that even in those countries where gays were allowed to serve, “in none of these societies is homosexuality widely accepted by a majority of the population.”v
    What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military? | Palm Center

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    How have other countries that do allow homosexuals to serve in their ranks dealt with the situation?
    Alot of those countries--Switzerland, Sweden, Germany--haven't been in a real fight in decades, even centuries. The last time the Germans were in a real war, they got their asses handed to them.

    Not only that, we're talking about other countries, with different cultures. What works there, isn't guaranteed to work here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry. I had no clue you were one of the neocons. Off to ignore with you - you're in good company, no worries. Every neocon on the board is in there.
    Do you even know what a NeoCon is? It has nothing to do with anything. And this issue is far from a political one except for the partisan slaves who seek it as one.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    So in other words, obedience will be withheld during the fighting of two wars over anti-gay prejudices?
    Nice job at putting words into my mouth.

    Low morale can effect how a force performs in the field. You do understand the importance of morale?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You don't understand these things because you tend to go extreme. It's not a matter of defiance. It's a matter of support. President Clinton had a very hard time with military support due to his lack of experience, which was compounded by his quest to alter social structure in the military. He was met with immediate friction and was criticized at all levels officiall and unofficially. He was constantly seeking support when it came to military matters. If you think I'm like you and just spout off baseless opinions you can read all about it in this book: America Between the Wars.

    Presidents very much need military support in times of war. A General was recently fired because of his voiced opinions criticizing the Administration. Imagine an entire military aggrivated. Clinton saw it first hand and Obama isn't as stupid as to pretend this history doesn't exist.
    Huh, so I guess that whole "fighting for my country" or "defending our freedoms" thing only applies when you agree with The Man's policy on fags.


    TED,
    Loves how you label simple logic as "baseless opinion."
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Alot of those countries--Switzerland, Sweden, Germany--haven't been in a real fight in decades, even centuries. The last time the Germans were in a real war, they got their asses handed to them.

    Not only that, we're talking about other countries, with different cultures. What works there, isn't guaranteed to work here.
    17.A 2009 study by the University of Florida professor Bonnie Moradi and the Rand researcher Laura Miller, entitled “Attitudes of Iraq and Afghanistan War Veterans toward Gay and Lesbian Service Members,” and published in Armed Forces & Society, was the first-ever statistical analysis of whether openly gay service has any impact on military readiness. The study shows that knowing a gay or lesbian unit member has no bearing on the unit’s cohesion, concluding that “the data indicated no associations between knowing a lesbian or gay unit member and ratings of perceived unit cohesion or readiness.”xviii

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    5.In July 1993, Rand researchers at the National Defense Research Institute, a think tank founded by the Air Force, completed a study commissioned by Defense Secretary Les Aspin. Prepared by over 70 social scientists based on evidence from six countries and data analyses from hundreds of studies of cohesion, concluded that sexual orientation alone was “not germane” in determining who should serve. Rand found that “none of the militaries studied for this report believe their effectiveness as an organization has been impaired or reduced as a result of the inclusion of homosexuals.” In Canada, where the ban had just ended, Rand found “no resignations (despite previous threats to quit), no problems with recruitment, and no diminution of cohesion, morale, or organizational effectiveness.” The same conclusions were reached about Israel. The study reported that even in those countries where gays were allowed to serve, “in none of these societies is homosexuality widely accepted by a majority of the population.”v
    What Does the Empirical Research Say about the Impact of Openly Gay Service on the Military? | Palm Center
    I put more stock in what actual veterans have to say on the subject, than what a civilian think tank says. The Rand Study is nothing more than an opinion poll. We all know how those can turn out to be wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Alot of those countries--Switzerland, Sweden, Germany--haven't been in a real fight in decades, even centuries. The last time the Germans were in a real war, they got their asses handed to them.
    How about the IDF? That was the subject of the report he linked to earlier.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I put more stock in what actual veterans have to say on the subject, than what a civilian think tank says. The Rand Study is nothing more than an opinion poll. We all know how those can turn out to be wrong.
    National Defense Research Institute, a think tank founded by the Air Force,

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