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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

  1. #441
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I say this because part of me doesn't believe that Obama wants to risk a rift between him and the military, especially in a time of war where he needs our support.
    The President spoke against DADT months ago.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    1) DADT will not go away, but be redefined. I say this because part of me doesn't believe that Obama wants to risk a rift between him and the military, especially in a time of war where he needs our support. With Clinton as an example and a recentfiring of a General for being less than professional, it's seems more than possible that this issue will be left for the next President.
    In what universe does the Commander in Chief need to appease the military in order to maintain their support in a time of war?

    He doesn't need your support. He needs your obedience. Are you going to withhold your obedience while we're fighting two wars in the middle east?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    How have other countries that do allow homosexuals to serve in their ranks dealt with the situation?

    Presence of Openly Gay Soldiers in IDF Does Not Undermine Unit Social Cohesion
    June 6, 2010
    Danny Kaplan, Amir Rosenmann
    Research Report Submitted to the Michael D. Palm Center



    The study can be found in .pdf form here.

    Highlights: This study examines the correlation between the presence of gay and lesbian soldiers in the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) and measures of unit social cohesion, following a survey of 417 combat and non-combat male soldiers conducted in 2000, seven years after IDF restrictions on gay personnel were terminated. The argument that openly gay soldiers could undermine unit cohesion rests on a particular understanding of cohesion as a social factor based on interpersonal emotions between unit members. It argues that once unit members acknowledge the presence of a homosexual soldier among them their sense of closeness and affection for each other would drop. Under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (DADT) such lowered social cohesion is considered an "unacceptable risk," irrespective of its possible impact on combat effectiveness. The study tests this social dimension of the cohesion rationale by applying a measure of social cohesion based on interpersonal emotions toward unit members. As an army constantly in the thick of combat, the IDF provides an operative test case for the effect of openly gay service on social cohesion. We examined whether knowledge of gay and lesbian soldiers in combat and non-combat positions correlates with reduced measure of social cohesion.
    Palm Center

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Why is it that you can train an individual to become a professional dispenser of death and destruction in a handful of months, but figuring out the best way to deal with gay people takes years?
    It's not hard to understand. Just think about it honestly.

    Training people to perform a duty is easy. Training people to change their personal views is something else. Why was it such a struggle for Americans to get through civil rights? A couple centuries of slavery and another century of racial segregation trained people of all color to think a certain way. Now apply this to homosexuality. Has it been an accepted manner of lifestyle in the American culture ever? All the senior leaders (commissioned and non-commissioned) in the military grew up understanding a certain thing about homosexuality. You didn't have to be religious to be taught to frown upon it. Any American with a television set was taught that it was a subject of ridicule. In the 80s it was associated with AIDS. By the 90s' even Will and Grace, which centered around a homnosexual theme, chose to portray them as limp wristed and girlie. Today people are actually stunned that an alpha male Army/Marine Corps can'tjust flip the switch of acceptance in a society that still frowns upon it and most prefer that they only have some rights rather than full rights.

    But I've stated this all before. That's why many are seeking the military to force acceptance for the entire society once again.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    The President spoke against DADT months ago.
    President Obama say's many things to appease the crowd. Then he passes off responsibility to a panel to take unofficial responsibility.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    Yep. I guess teaching someone how to dehumanize people so you can kill them is easier than making sure that you and your comrades in arms treat each other with respect and dignity.
    We aren't taught how to dehumanize people. Have you ever been in a fight? Did you have to dehumanize him to punch him?

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    In what universe does the Commander in Chief need to appease the military in order to maintain their support in a time of war?

    He doesn't need your support. He needs your obedience. Are you going to withhold your obedience while we're fighting two wars in the middle east?
    Morale is as much the CIC's responsibility, as anyone else's, in the chain of command. The CIC can't afford to inact decisions that could possibly destroy morale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #448
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It's not hard to understand. Just think about it honestly.

    Training people to perform a duty is easy. Training people to change their personal views is something else. Why was it such a struggle for Americans to get through civil rights? A couple centuries of slavery and another century of racial segregation trained people of all color to think a certain way. Now apply this to homosexuality.
    Okay, I've got it. You guys aren't professional enough to see past your personal prejudices with respect to homosexuality. That makes sense.

    Too bad the IDF is more professional than our own military, it would've been nice to see that kind of professionalism here at home.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Morale is as much the CIC's responsibility, as anyone else's, in the chain of command. The CIC can't afford to inact decisions that could possibly destroy morale.
    So in other words, obedience will be withheld during the fighting of two wars over anti-gay prejudices?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    President Obama say's many things to appease the crowd. Then he passes off responsibility to a panel to take unofficial responsibility.
    Oh, I'm sorry. I had no clue you were one of the neocons. Off to ignore with you - you're in good company, no worries. Every neocon on the board is in there.

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