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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    true story. Picture it. San Vito Air Station, Italy, 1988. Two young staff Sergeants. These two ladies are roommates. Both are Russian Linguists working at the base. For whatever reason, someone decided that the little air station had not had any real scandals recently, and began a witch hunt. There were more service members involved, but I only personally knew the 2 women, so I wont comment on any of the others. One of these airmen had been airman of the quarter 3 times, in the previous year, and had just recently been declared airman of the year. Her military record was exemplary, and every review she had received had been glowing in every respect. The other woman, while not quite the perfect airman as the first, had never been in trouble, and performed her duties admirably. Someone thought that maybe these two young ladies were a tad closer than simple roommates. Accusations were made, inquiries were made..In the end, both ladies were forced out of the military, and the air force lost 2 russian linguists at a time when this was a shortage career field. Someone please explain to me, how this was GOOD for the military? Tell me how it is EVER good to force out good, honest, hard working people?
    That sounds like a unit that had a weak ass commander. The commander should have made decisions based on hrad evidence, rather than rumors and hearsay. Was the commander female?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    But we ARE talking witch hunts. I was there. I saw that one, and was fortunate enough to see another one when I was still in tech school. In that one, there was no evidence, no proof against the 10 or so they accused, but all but one were badgered, and went through so much hell during the whole thing that they took the honorable discharges they were offered in lieu of court martial, and moved on and out. The one who fought it basically said... "Courtmartial me. Prove it"

    It was no proven, he was exonerated of all charges, and the last I knew (3 years ago) was still serving. Yes, he was and is gay.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    I support DADT.

    If I ever join the military, it would be much more fun to bugger in secret.

    Activist judge ruins fun gay sex for sergeants everywhere.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    This case has not truly been decided yet, and won't be until it gets before SCOTUS. The decision was handed down by a court in California, and those decisions have been frequently overturned higher up. Doesn't make the decision any less right. Personally, I applaud the court for doing the right thing.

    Want a little bit of irony here? The lawsuit was brought by a group of Republicans. DADT was enacted during a Democratic administration (Clinton). Isn't this a little backwards? LOL.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    true story. Picture it. San Vito Air Station, Italy, 1988. Two young staff Sergeants. These two ladies are roommates. Both are Russian Linguists working at the base. For whatever reason, someone decided that the little air station had not had any real scandals recently, and began a witch hunt. There were more service members involved, but I only personally knew the 2 women, so I wont comment on any of the others. One of these airmen had been airman of the quarter 3 times, in the previous year, and had just recently been declared airman of the year. Her military record was exemplary, and every review she had received had been glowing in every respect. The other woman, while not quite the perfect airman as the first, had never been in trouble, and performed her duties admirably. Someone thought that maybe these two young ladies were a tad closer than simple roommates. Accusations were made, inquiries were made..In the end, both ladies were forced out of the military, and the air force lost 2 russian linguists at a time when this was a shortage career field. Someone please explain to me, how this was GOOD for the military? Tell me how it is EVER good to force out good, honest, hard working people?
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That sounds like a unit that had a weak ass commander. The commander should have made decisions based on hrad evidence, rather than rumors and hearsay. Was the commander female?
    The commander was male, apdst..but that is not the point. See..they harass, and accuse, and offer an honorable discharge (as happened at my tech school) or end up taking it to court martial. To avoid the humiliation and the nightmare of a court martial, most simply choose the honorable discharge.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall the UCMJ classifies every sexual act between a man and woman other than coitus in the missionary position as sodomy. Obviously, this isn't enforced terribly often.
    Yes, you would be mistaken.

    This how Article 125 actually reads.

    “(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient
    to complete the offense.

    (b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Elements.

    (1) That the accused engaged in unnatural carnal copulation with a certain other person or with an animal. (Note: Add either or both of the following elements, if applicable)

    (2) That the act was done with a child under the age of 16.

    (3) That the act was done by force and without the consent of the other person.

    Explanation.

    It is unnatural carnal copulation for a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or anus of another person or of an animal; or to have carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except the sexual parts, with another person; or to have carnal copulation with an animal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Needless to say, just like with any blue law, they are RARELY enforced. In fact, they are pretty much only enforced, if the person is on such thin ice, and they wish to remove them, so they suse this as the easiest way to remove them. Rather like getting someone they cant pin anything else on (even though they know he is guilty) for tax evasion.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yes, you would be mistaken.

    This how Article 125 actually reads.
    Very well, I stand corrected. Oral sex and anal sex are prohibited under the article. What's the rationale there?

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    The commander was male, apdst..but that is not the point.
    I'm speculating that the commander was a female and had been rebuked by one, or both of these airmen. See how having gays serving in the military can be detrimental to good order?




    See..they harass, and accuse, and offer an honorable discharge (as happened at my tech school) or end up taking it to court martial. To avoid the humiliation and the nightmare of a court martial, most simply choose the honorable discharge.
    Again, it sounds like the unit commander was weak. A strong leader, that is going to get rid of two soldiers--especially exemplary soldiers--would do it based on some very firm evidence. That's the way I would handle it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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