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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You might have had a point...if this was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Today, your point fails miserably, since the rest of society handles gays with no trouble. It's not social engineering, it's being a part of society.
    But the military (and for sure combat arms units) is not and should not be part of society. 75% of the stuff that goes on in combat units would never under any circumstances be allowd anywhere but in the military. The only purpose for the military, as you know, is to kill our enemys. The military needs to be able to decide what is going to help us defeat our enemys not some court that know nothing about what the military is like. While I agree that DADT should go away how it is done and when should be left up to the big bosses at the pentagon.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    1) You can't fight terrorism with guns.

    2) For every terrorist you kill, you breed 10 more. They multiply exponentially.
    These are myths touted too often by people far removed from the subject. Our history suggests something else.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Did you miss the part where a soldier whom acts completely professional on base can be discharged for their lawful actions off base, even if it's someone looking through their window and seeing a marriage certificate.

    It has nothing to do with being PC and everything to do with allowing soldiers to soldier without having to worry about someone seeing their private life.
    The only problem with you argument is that a soldier is never off duty and in many ways dosent have a true private life the same way a civilian does.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, “He stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    These are myths touted too often by people far removed from the subject. Our history suggests something else.
    true, I have found that with guns and bombs is about the only effective way to fight terrorists. as for them breeding more...if you kill enough they eventually run out of breeding stock.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    These are myths touted too often by people far removed from the subject. Our history suggests something else.
    It does? so why do we still have terrorists?
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    Psstt..Sarge? I was a female in the military in the 80s, and knew many who were there in the 60s and 70s. It wasnt the social paradise you seem to think. Oh yes..we were allowed in..and it had improved leaps and bounds by the time I enlisted. But well..lets say you might need to take your rose colored glasses off about that one.
    I didn't say one word about paradise. I merely made a true statement. When you were a female in the 80's women had already been Colonels and even Generals. Must you be argumentative?

    And by the way...it's not "sarge." I was a Seargent 3 pay grades ago in the late 90s.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    These are myths touted too often by people far removed from the subject. Our history suggests something else.
    Okay, I should elaborate. I do not deny that there are those who cannot be reasoned with, who cannot be cajoled, appeased, or in any other way, removed from their course of action. For these people, a bullet to the forehead is quite possibly the best solution. However, not all are like this..and if through a bombing run to get one of these bullet worthy ones, we kill several who are not....you get my drift, I am sure. Even if you disagree with my general attitude. Terrorism has always existed. Terrorism will always exist. There will always be radicals and idiots who get it into their head that they need to kill others simply because they do not agree with them. The only thing we can do is our best to minimize any damage they might cause, and stop them as quickly as possible, but we need to do this in such a way as to not foment these same ideals in the heads of those who have not yet crossed the line from slightly annoyed and not sure what they think of us into living bombs full of rage and hate. How do we do this? I don't know. If I did, or if anyone did, we wouldnt have this problem anymore.
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I didn't say one word about paradise. I merely made a true statement. When you were a female in the 80's women had already been Colonels and even Generals. Must you be argumentative?

    And by the way...it's not "sarge." I was a Seargent 3 pay grades ago in the late 90s.
    OH please..you will always be sarge to me. And oh yes..I must be argumentative. It's in my nature.
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    It does? so why do we still have terrorists?
    For the same reason even a McVeigh can rise out of the American landscape. Don't confuse "terrorist" with "terrorism." See this is what I'm talking about when it comes to baseless opinions. The military will do their part. It's the civilians who fail at diplomacy and then send in the military to clean up their messes who cling to the idea that they still have a chance to bring peace while cuffing the military. And they always convince the rest of the country that only they can talk us into a victory or at least a way to escape what they began. This is not to suggest that social problems throughout the Middle East doesn't demand a more diplomatic fix, but we are passed the idea that terrorist may one day organize enough to attack us. Our diplomats failed. We will not fail unless civilians demand it which is what they were doing in regards to Iraq. In the mean time, our diplomats continue to fail by not identifying what needs to happen throughout the region that does not need a military hand. Education, fresh water deliverance, social freedoms, are examplesof what our diplomats should be working towards. In the meantime, the military will focus on the gun toting terrorists. Our goal is not to stamp out terrorism. It is, however, to reduce it to a more manageble beast than it was allowed to be.

    First people have to understand this enemy, which they don't. And second they have to recognize history's lessons, which they don't.


    Myth 1: "You can't fight terrorism with guns." Fortunately our military isn't expressly focused on terrorism. It is focused on specific terrorists and their home bases. It's like declaring that we can;t defeat crime therefore we should leave the criminal alone. People, especially those who have never even seen the Middle East up close, have come to this ridiculous idea that there's no military solution and that only negotiation can solve our problem. When dealing with bullies the opposite is true. If you don't fight back with equal or greater force, you encourage your enemy to behave more viciously. The Tali-Ban proved this as did Al-Queda throughout the 90s when we pretended that they would just grow tired. Passive resistance only works when directed againt rule-of-law states. If people are unwilling to fight the fraction of humanity that is "evil," armed, organized, and determined to subjugate the rest, people will face even grimmer conflicts in the end. If people gravitated towards the terrorists in an immediate setting a few years back it was simply because Radicals merely crossed a line they had no problem crossing. An extreme few insurgencies have ever prevailed in history and most of those were against a self defeating military. We have a history of fighting insurgencies (which use terrorist tactics) and winning. From the Barbary Pirates to the Phillipines and on to Iraq.


    Myth 2: "For every terrorist you kill, you breed 10 more. They multiply exponentially." Al-Queda has been wrecked throughout the world. The military was told by plenty of couch potatos that killing Osama Bin Laden, Zarqawi, Saddam Hussein or Omar and everyone else that they will become martyrs or that "10 more" will rise. Nobody fights to avenge Hussein and few in this fight are any of the terrorists we started out killing. The truth is that killing religious fanatics is the only way to end their influence. Killing them is the only way to prove they lack divine protection. The vast majority of everyone we have fought since 9/11 have been local fighters confused about who their enemy was. After enough Muslim slaughter the Sunni in Iraq (and those that traveled to slaughter) recognized Al-Queda for what they were. Afghani recognize what Al-Queda. And as Pakistanis suffer in the North with no Al-Queda support given, they too will recognize truth.

    Another myth is that we create terrorists by fighting back. This is the heaviest load of crap coming out of Washington. The vast majority of all fighting inside Iraq and Afghanistan are local. They aren't terrorists and have no designs to deal with issues outside of their borders. In fact, most of their conflicts are about each other. With Iraq behind us and Afghanistan on the way towards a mend, there will little to no terrorists looking across the ocean. They have been bludgeoned. Even the vast majority of Islam knows who their enemy is.

    You can't convince a religious fanatic that all he believes in is wrong. You can't force him to compromise his core religious beliefs by saying please. And you can't convince him that what he considers an afront against his god is now OK. The vast majority of all people touting these myths (and many more) have no idea what they are talking about. They are just repeating what they heard from others who have never seen the region or even understands the region's history, much less our own military's history.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-10-10 at 09:40 PM.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    OH please..you will always be sarge to me. And oh yes..I must be argumentative. It's in my nature.
    Which means you were Army or Air Force. Marines and Sailors believe in promotions.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-10-10 at 09:32 PM.

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