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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Right, since open homosexuals are still not hired most places in the private sector. We need the military to show us how.

    Oh wait ...
    And many are fired once they are found out. They have no rights to marriage. No equality rights or legal recourse that includes them like blacks and women do. People sought the military tomake race raltionships better between blacks and whites. People sought the military to promote their women. And they do it today for gays.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    It's cute that you see yourself as anything other than a pawn, really.

    You should drop the act, you're meat for the grinder, and you are controlled by civilians.


    No, I was serious about the mechanic bit. I have no idea what his specialty will be, but he can already fix cars and stuff, I'd be surprised if he did anything else.
    Perhaps in his case, but there ARE many many other jobs out there for people who wish to pursue the military as a career. I was a Russian Linguist/translater/intelligence operator. Hardly a job for a knuckle dragger.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    And many are fired once they are found out. They have no rights to marriage. No equality rights or legal recourse that includes them like blacks and women do. People sought the military tomake race raltionships better between blacks and whites. People sought the military to promote their women. And they do it today for gays.
    This is a rather unfair statement. Things have been slowly improving for gays in the civilian sector for quite a while now. If someone is fired for their sexual preference, they have one hell of a lawsuit on their hands that they WILL win. Marriage rights have been granted in several states. Public CIVILIAN attitudes towards gays has been improving steadily for quite a while. Allowing them to serve openly in the military will just be one more step in something that has been happening in the civilian worlds for quite some time now. Surely you don't believe that if it is decided that gays can serve openly, suddenly the angels will sing, and all of america will open their arms wide to the gays of the world and say "come on home folks. So sorry we have been mean to you"? As if once the military gets involved, suddenly all homophobia will dissolve? just like there is no longer any prejudice against blacks, or no sexism?
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    Perhaps in his case, but there ARE many many other jobs out there for people who wish to pursue the military as a career. I was a Russian Linguist/translater/intelligence operator. Hardly a job for a knuckle dragger.
    Yeah, I realize that the machine has quite a few different parts. See my edit; I don't seriously think that all soldiers either shoot rifles or fix engines.

    Were you seriously a Russian translator? The choice in career I used to want was as a translator in the Moscow embassy. Not a military job, of course, but still.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    *sigh* Lets be completely honest here. The military does not control the military for very good reason. Would you prefer we were Turkey, where their military controls the government? Oh yes..that would be wonderful. Generals should be listened to..their input should be heard..but to put the final decision into their hands is a recipe for potential disaster.
    Well, their military coups every 15 or so years to replace a screwed up government and recharges it before giving it back to the people. You tell me where our country is headed and what you think is the cure. I don't trust any Republican or Democrat.

    Iraq is the ultimate proof of civilian disaster. It wasn't until they butted out and gave all operational control over to the military that it turned around. The Gulf War was proof that an absence of civilian control brings swift "victory." Korea, Vietnam, Beirut, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq's fist half are all disasters engineered by civilians. Generals should have more of a say in what is and is not the enemy and how to deal with them. But because Washington is loaded with the anti-war protestors of Vietnam and the wealthy who look down upon the military as a waste of time and life, we will continue to get the civilian's ideas on how to stumble and trip through foreign policy.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    And many are fired once they are found out.
    Very very rarely at the most. In many parts of the country it is illegal to do so in fact.

    They have no rights to marriage.
    Irrelevant.

    No equality rights or legal recourse that includes them like blacks and women do.
    In many/most part of the country they in fact do.

    People sought the military tomake race raltionships better between blacks and whites. People sought the military to promote their women. And they do it today for gays.
    Actually, in both cases the civilian world had passed the military in large portions of the country.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    Yeah, I realize that the machine has quite a few different parts. See my edit; I don't seriously think that all soldiers either shoot rifles or fix engines.

    Were you seriously a Russian translator? The choice in career I used to want was as a translator in the Moscow embassy. Not a military job, of course, but still.
    Yeah..Spent a lot of time with headsets on in a bunker intercepting russian transmissions. Towards the end of the cold war. A year of intensive training in Russian at DLIFLC in Monterey California, then on to texas for the actual job training. Being in military intelligence is not nearly as glamorous as it sounds. Mostly boring. On occasion got to hear some real stuff, but mostly a lot of very bored Russians talking about their dates the night before. Man..russians are crude.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    And many are fired once they are found out.
    The few open homosexuals that are "found out" (not sure how that is supposed to work) and fired have legal recourse.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    They have no rights to marriage.
    They wouldn't have that in the military, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    No equality rights or legal recourse that includes them like blacks and women do.
    Clearly false.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    People sought the military tomake race raltionships better between blacks and whites. People sought the military to promote their women. And they do it today for gays.
    Women were being promoted in the private sector long before the military decided to do it. The only example you got right was with blacks.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    It's cute that you see yourself as anything other than a pawn, really.
    We are all pawns. I make no argument against this. Just that pawns deserve this country more than the sloths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    I should mention that I might know a teensy bit more about how the military works than you give me credit for. I looked into it quite a bit before I decided it wasn't a career I wanted to adopt.
    I read a pamplet once too.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, their military coups every 15 or so years to replace a screwed up government and recharges it before giving it back to the people. You tell me where our country is headed and what you think is the cure. I don't trust any Republican or Democrat.

    Iraq is the ultimate proof of civilian disaster. It wasn't until they butted out and gave all operational control over to the military that it turned around. The Gulf War was proof that an absence of civilian control brings swift "victory." Korea, Vietnam, Beirut, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq's fist half are all disasters engineered by civilians. Generals should have more of a say in what is and is not the enemy and how to deal with them. But because Washington is loaded with the anti-war protestors of Vietnam and the wealthy who look down upon the military as a waste of time and life, we will continue to get the civilian's ideas on how to stumble and trip through foreign policy.
    This is where, sadly, Msgt, our political differences are going to seriously blaze forth. The enemy? Which enemy do you mean exactly? Should I just stop here, and leave it at this, or should we go all out? It could get ugly..
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

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