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Thread: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Wrong again.
    "Gender is the wide set of characteristics that are seen to distinguish between male and female. It can extend from sex to social role or gender identity. As a word, "gender" has more than one valid definition. In ordinary speech, it is used interchangeably with "sex" to denote the condition of being male or female. In the social sciences, however, it refers specifically to socially constructed and institutionalized differences such as gender roles. The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"."

    Life is a little more complicated than "right and wrong" tex.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 09-10-10 at 03:12 PM.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    You do know gays have already been serving, right?

    Get over it. If they're willing to serve and possibly risk their lives if needed they shouldn't be punished for their consensual relationships.

    The military has way too much control over service members on their off time not even counting this and is why so many people get out.

    Get over it.
    No matter what measures are taken, or how many new laws are enacted, prejudice cannot be squelched. If daddy or your peers were prejudiced, you'll be prejudiced too.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    lol Because one judge says so? Ever heard of appeals?

    Scream and rant all you like. There is a process to follow.
    An appeal simply means finding fault with the judge's ruling. I haven't heard a convincing argument from you that suggests that the judge was wrong and that DADT is constitutional.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    No matter what measures are taken, or how many new laws are enacted, prejudice cannot be squelched. If daddy or your peers were prejudiced, you'll be prejudiced too.

    ricksfolly
    I agree that we will never get rid of prejudice, but the bolded statement holds no truth.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The part I bolded made me laugh.

    As you yourself have in a way pointed out before, gays who choose to serve in the army and in particular the marines will be very much that alpha male type. You are not going to see some limp wristed femme gay wanting to serve in the army or Marines, nor would they succeed. Further, it's not expected they "embrace" gays, only tolerate and work with. The full esprit de corpes will come in short order after that.
    Oh they have to "embrace." We have to care about each other, because we are all we have over there. The close proximity of living and training very much move units towards building personal trusts and companionships, first at the individual level and then the unit level. The "gay alpha male" is something I even have a hard time picturing, but they won't be the problem. The problem will be those who have spent their entire lives learning a certain thing about gays and are now told to turn on a dime.

    This is an American social prescription and problem. Only recently have gays been celebrated in the media, television, and hollywood. Mid 90s back, gays were the source of ridicule and jokes. They were the AIDS creators. They were God's abominations. But now? California decides that they have no right to marry, yet must serve openly in the military out of consitutional awareness? This is a civilian problem and they seek to use the military to force our entire civilization beyond it. This is not new (as you know I've stated before).

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    "Gender is the wide set of characteristics that are seen to distinguish between male and female. It can extend from sex to social role or gender identity. As a word, "gender" has more than one valid definition. In ordinary speech, it is used interchangeably with "sex" to denote the condition of being male or female. In the social sciences, however, it refers specifically to socially constructed and institutionalized differences such as gender roles. The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women"."

    Life is a little more complicated than "right and wrong" tex.

    Read the definition again Critical. What I said was 100% correct.

    Unless you are going to argue the dictionary is lying when it defines what gender is you have no basis to claim it is incorrect.

    Your attempts to argue against the very definition of the word because some organization defines it another way is not a convincing argument.

    Face facts. The dictionary version is what we go by. Not an interpretation by some organization.
    Last edited by texmaster; 09-10-10 at 03:26 PM.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    An appeal simply means finding fault with the judge's ruling. I haven't heard a convincing argument from you that suggests that the judge was wrong and that DADT is constitutional.
    Oh well as long as you aren't convinced
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Read the definition again Critical. What I said was 100% correct.
    What you aaid was a single vernacular definition. I was using the social science definition. Neither of us was 100% right.

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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh they have to "embrace." We have to care about each other, because we are all we have over there. The close proximity of living and training very much move units towards building personal trusts and companionships, first at the individual level and then the unit level. The "gay alpha male" is something I even have a hard time picturing, but they won't be the problem. The problem will be those who have spent their entire lives learning a certain thing about gays and are now told to turn on a dime.

    This is an American social prescription and problem. Only recently have gays been celebrated in the media, television, and hollywood. Mid 90s back, gays were the source of ridicule and jokes. They were the AIDS creators. They were God's abominations. But now? California decides that they have no right to marry, yet must serve openly in the military out of consitutional awareness? This is a civilian problem and they seek to use the military to force our entire civilization beyond it. This is not new (as you know I've stated before).
    It will most likely not make it's full course through the courts, as it is scheduled to be up for repeal early next year after the DOD gets done with it's yearlong review.

    I don't think any one is saying it there won't be some issues when the change happens, but I do not believe they will be big or unsolvable issues. The rest of society manages to deal with gays now, and I have no doubt that the military can handle it as well, and probably quite well. I got a lot of confidence in you guys.
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    Re: Dont ask Dont tell Policy Ruled Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Why are people even debating this?

    The issue is settled. Whether you believe homosexuality is a sin, a character flaw, a mental disorder, an addiction, etc. and whether you believe that gays will be a distraction in the military, that this is an act of "social engineering", etc., it doesn't change the one fact that matters.

    DADT was UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

    The military cannot infringe upon our basic Constitutional rights whether we are gay or straight. The military exists to protect our Constitutional rights, as well as to protect us from foreign threats.
    But California can? A state that determined that gay marriage was not a right dares decide that they know what is best for the military and now seeks to lead the gay voice to utopia? I would venture a guess that none of this panel has ever served, but wants the military to lead the way for civilians once again. Blame the military all you want for keeping gays down, but its civilians that have their heads up their asses. From women to blacks, the military has proven to lead the way. I guess they are going to use the military to once again enforce what civilians cannot. Perhaps you should look at this differently. In the end, its the military that's going to be your social hero.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-10-10 at 03:35 PM.

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