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US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

People who burn books tend not to read books.

The Irony is that the Quran copied quite alot of the Bible, so its almost like they are burning the bible as well lol.
 
I am rather appalled at the horrible displays of jr jigh mentality I am seeing from some of the posts here. "he started it" and "Well, he hit me first" is petty, childish, and counter productive. Tit for tat? Really? Really?
Yes, radicals in many Muslim parts of the world have burned American flags, and staged many other demonstrations against the United States. Does this mean that it is a good thing for us to stoop to their level and do the same to them? Come on people, grow up!
This horrid excuse for a man of god has every right to burn every single Koran he has, provided these books are his to burn. The United States government, and every single person in it has the right to condemn his actions and call him a worthless waste of oxygen if we so choose.
This is going to play very poorly to the radical factions within Islam, but I do wonder if the very obvious outrage of the American people on the whole, and the condemnation from our government might make the sane and reasonable Muslims look upon us more favorably. This one insane act of intolerance and hate might very well bring our religions closer to an understanding of one another. We can only hope.
 
hafez said:
you apologize for your faith subjecting myslef, my family and friends to a dhimmi status and we will talk. It is YOUR religion that proclaimed I must never speak of my views to a muslim, it is your religion that refused our congregation the ability to renovate our church and it is your religion that forced us to be chided day in and day out by "moderate" muslims like yourself. The difference between you and I is I believe I am right but am willing to regard you as equals. You on the other hand think you are right and consider your path the truth and try to force it down my throat. But the facts are you can't apologize to one who is so clearly wrong, why should you apologize for an infidels rejection of Allah surely my treatment is just.

explain this one

Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216 - Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

and you really don't want to start talking about the hadiths do you?
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First of all, speak for yourself..

now, unlike yourself, i will address the verse u just pulled out of the hat...

The Qur'an makes it clear that, whether we want it or not, war is a necessity of existence, a fact of life, so long as there exist in the world injustice, oppression, capricious ambitions, and arbitrary claims. This may sound strange. But is it not a matter of historical record that humanity from the early dawn of history up till now has suffered from local, civil and global wars? And is it not also a fact that, more often than not, victorious allies settle their disputes over their gains and the status of their vanquished enemies through wars and threats of war?

FYI, teh Quran is not a buffet, u can't just pick teh surahs u dont like and start to judge the entirety of the book based of that..

dont get me wrong, there are mnay muslims today who do things completely contrary to the teachings of Islam...but then again, religion goes wrong. (afterall, i dont judge Jesus's teachigns of the bible when i see Christian evangelics bomb abortion clinics, or teh crusades"

So it’s clear that war is not an objective of Islam nor is it the normal course of Muslims. It is only the last resort and is used under the most extra ordinary circumstances when all other measures fail. This is the actual status of war in Islam. Islam is the religion of peace: its meaning is peace; one of Allah’s Names is Peace; the daily greetings of Muslims and angels are peace; Paradise is the abode of peace, the adjective “Muslim” means Peaceful. Peace is the nature, the meaning, the emblem and the objective of Islam. Every being is entitled to enjoy the peace of Islam and the kindness of the peaceful Muslims, regardless of religious or geographical or racial considerations, so long as there is no aggression against Islam or the Muslims. If non-Muslims are peaceful with the Muslims or even indifferent to Islam, there can be no ground or justification to declare war on them. There is no such thing as religious war to force Islam on non-Muslims, because if Islam does not emerge from deep convictions, from within, it is not acceptable to Allah, nor can it help its professor.

now, since u love buffets, ima start question the Bible.

1. In genesis ch 30 Jacob takes stripped rods and put it in a troth and had animals looking at it while they mated. the offsrpings then came out with stripped fur. in other words, if im having intercourse with my wife while watchign Barney the big purple dinosaur, my kids will be born big, purple, and have a tail.

2. Bible said earth is 5768 yrs old. look at the geneology of luke, (Even one Christian evangelical tried to convince christians that dinosaurs and humans once lived peacefully on earth...ummm, sorry brother, but thats the flintstones)

3. in Dueteronomy ch 21 it talks about having sex with captives

4. Book of Magi, it talks about zorastrian priests from Iran following a star, hovering over a stable...Do you know how big a star is? physically impossible

5. In Dueteronomy, Jesus says, "The kings that dont accept me, brign them hither and slay them before me"

AND LAST BUT DEF NOT LEAST,

6 Ezekiel ch 23. verses 20 and 21

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."

you have some explaining to do my friend

i rest my case
 
Godswrath, let me give you a tip. I am not in any way saying you are not correct, but take the advice of one who argues with Christians on a regular basis. As an atheist, I have studied most of the major religions extensively. One cannot rightly profess a disbelief in something they have no real knowledge of, yes? Anyway..my point. When quoting scripture to christians, try as often as you possibly can to quote only New testament. Most Christians seem to believe that the old testament is just old hat, and doesnt matter anymore. However, if you wish to really bring out the big guns, as far as the OT goes, make sure to always bring up Ole Joshua and his march through the promised lands, slaughtering anything and everything in his path, as well as good old fashioned rape and pillage.

I do not much like the Muslim faith..I do not much like the Christian faith. As an atheist, I can't help but look at all this mess and think that this world would be so much better off without either. But then..man is good at finding things to fight over, so that's probably not true.

ANY follower of any religion can pick and choose the bits of their religion that they like, and most do just that. I don't know a single Christian who doenst raise an eyebrow at some of the stuff in the holy book, and while I have no close muslim friends to discuss the Koran with, I would be willing to bet, that a good chunk of them also have a few "huh?" moments over their own holy book.

But what so many seem to forget on both sides of the spiritual fence, is that these books were written a VERY long time ago, and the world has moved on a fair bit since then. this is not to say many of the lessons and values are not still very valid, and very helpful. But one cannot read them completely and utterly literally, and it is rare that they can be taken at face value.
 
opinion8tdwench said:
Godswrath, let me give you a tip. I am not in any way saying you are not correct, but take the advice of one who argues with Christians on a regular basis. As an atheist, I have studied most of the major religions extensively. One cannot rightly profess a disbelief in something they have no real knowledge of, yes? Anyway..my point. When quoting scripture to christians, try as often as you possibly can to quote only New testament. Most Christians seem to believe that the old testament is just old hat, and doesnt matter anymore. However, if you wish to really bring out the big guns, as far as the OT goes, make sure to always bring up Ole Joshua and his march through the promised lands, slaughtering anything and everything in his path, as well as good old fashioned rape and pillage.

I do not much like the Muslim faith..I do not much like the Christian faith. As an atheist, I can't help but look at all this mess and think that this world would be so much better off without either. But then..man is good at finding things to fight over, so that's probably not true.

ANY follower of any religion can pick and choose the bits of their religion that they like, and most do just that. I don't know a single Christian who doenst raise an eyebrow at some of the stuff in the holy book, and while I have no close muslim friends to discuss the Koran with, I would be willing to bet, that a good chunk of them also have a few "huh?" moments over their own holy book.

But what so many seem to forget on both sides of the spiritual fence, is that these books were written a VERY long time ago, and the world has moved on a fair bit since then. this is not to say many of the lessons and values are not still very valid, and very helpful. But one cannot read them completely and utterly literally, and it is rare that they can be taken at face value.
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Hm, well thanks for the insight...as far as teh quran being written a long time ago and therefore not being much applicable to us any longer...why is that? have humans really changed? what has changed about us? technology and medicine for hte most part...

other htan that, not much has changed, we still need to eat, sleep, reproduce..ppl still get upset, jealous, happy...ppl still die, wars still exist, coexistence still exists..there still murder...

not much has changed my friend, just standars of living has "improved"... i mean, time are changing but with what respect... as far as scriptures raising ''huh?" im missing you point...

as far as teh Old Testament..sure the New testament can't be ignored, but let me remind you... The God of the Old Testament is the SAMEEE God as the New Testament, unless your a Marcionite of course, who believe teh God of hte old testament was an inferior God to that of the new testament, (and they had a good reason to believe that)...

as far as quoting scriptures from teh new testament, there are still scriptures that i have trouble understanding... Luke 12:47 (talkign about flogging yoru slaves)

anywho, since ur an athiest, i must say, i've spoke to many athiests, and i must say, u have some interesting points about teh nature of life..

fyi, im still learning all this.. im only 20 years old
 
Redress said:
I don't care for what the church is doing, but part of being in the military in the US is standing up for our freedoms. I think what the church is doing is ****ty, but they are free to do it under our constitution, and that is what soldiers, in the long run, are fighting for, our rights under that constitution.
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The soldiers should also be in NY, protecting freedom of religion.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
The *Islamic center* is the problem. . . I think everyone's clear that this isn't *just* a mosque.
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As long as it is not a shooting range, some sort of camp where jihadists can train or where fundamentalist islamism is taught, I don't see any problem with that mosque.

Americans talk a lot about protecting their freedom, but they're are denying freedom of religion to their own countrymen.
 
hafez said:
you apologize for your faith subjecting myslef, my family and friends to a dhimmi status and we will talk. It is YOUR religion that proclaimed I must never speak of my views to a muslim, it is your religion that refused our congregation the ability to renovate our church and it is your religion that forced us to be chided day in and day out by "moderate" muslims like yourself. The difference between you and I is I believe I am right but am willing to regard you as equals. You on the other hand think you are right and consider your path the truth and try to force it down my throat.
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Based on your interactions, it appears to me that you have a history that has greatly affected your judgement on this subject, as well as your ability to be objective. God's Wrath hasn't done anything but counter your claims.
 
bub said:
Americans talk a lot about protecting their freedom, but they're are denying freedom of religion to their own countrymen.
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This is a misstatement. No one has denied the mosque's requests. People have spoken out against having a mosque there, but that is only to be expected in a country with free speech. The mosque-builders rights have been protected.
 
It is not that they are not applicable to us anymore, it is that the way we deal with our problems, etc has changed. The Bible speaks of stoning adulterers, as does the Koran. Most modern people do not feel this is an appropriate punishment. I cant help but think that even in the Sharia ruled countries where it is still done, a good portion of the citizens are not particularly fond of the practice. What needs to be looked at, instead of taking the stoning literally, is that adultery is a BAD thing. Both sides can agree with this. Honoring our vows, and being true, honest and faithful are concepts both Muslims and Christians can get behind. See what I mean? The principles have changed, but more modern thinking has us dealing with these things in different ways. The concepts..the morality..all these things are still valid. It is the way we approach them that has changed.
The Bible has woman walking always behind her man, and being obedient to him in every way. Modern (well, for the most part) thinking sees the two as helpmates (which is also mentioned in the bible) and supporting each other, with neither being the lord and master. One can show respect without being subservient. In the days when these holy books were written, it was probably kinda important that a woman do as she was told by her man, not because she was unable to think for herself, but because she had never been taught anything, and also because with the infancy death rate being as it was, her presence at the home pumping out babies was kinda essential to the survival of the species. Horrible, yes..but true for the time. We are moving past that now, and appreciating that a woman can contribute things besides being a baby factory. Again..the concept of respecting your mate is still there..but treated in a different way.
 
opinion8tdwench said:
It is not that they are not applicable to us anymore, it is that the way we deal with our problems, etc has changed. The Bible speaks of stoning adulterers, as does the Koran. Most modern people do not feel this is an appropriate punishment. I cant help but think that even in the Sharia ruled countries where it is still done, a good portion of the citizens are not particularly fond of the practice. What needs to be looked at, instead of taking the stoning literally, is that adultery is a BAD thing. Both sides can agree with this. Honoring our vows, and being true, honest and faithful are concepts both Muslims and Christians can get behind. See what I mean? The principles have changed, but more modern thinking has us dealing with these things in different ways. The concepts..the morality..all these things are still valid. It is the way we approach them that has changed.
The Bible has woman walking always behind her man, and being obedient to him in every way. Modern (well, for the most part) thinking sees the two as helpmates (which is also mentioned in the bible) and supporting each other, with neither being the lord and master. One can show respect without being subservient. In the days when these holy books were written, it was probably kinda important that a woman do as she was told by her man, not because she was unable to think for herself, but because she had never been taught anything, and also because with the infancy death rate being as it was, her presence at the home pumping out babies was kinda essential to the survival of the species. Horrible, yes..but true for the time. We are moving past that now, and appreciating that a woman can contribute things besides being a baby factory. Again..the concept of respecting your mate is still there..but treated in a different way.
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thanks for the clarification. i think i see your point... you are speaking from the point of view that the books were written by men and men are fallible so they're views can be challenged, refuted, and discarded over time like scientic theories or fashion statements. But when God says that the shariah is universal till the end of time it means it is applicaBle and even the best option for every age. Modern society now has AIDS which is new from sexual pervsions, its modern isnt' it?...Chastity is an "old and backwards" view, but sexual freedom is modern..is this better? i mean, they say having sexual partners and what not is good for our character and buildling of relationships...but is that true? something liek 60% of marriages become divorce...

I go to school being told we live in a society of progress. Do we? My grandma from Iran got married at the age of 13 and she is the brightest woman i know...in many countries, kids at the age of 10 are working at home, helping their mom, their dad at teh shops...In America, a large percentage of kids are addicted to internet pornography and TV. In california, in the 1800's, the legal age of consent was 14. in hawaii in 2001 it was 10... is this progression? are we truly moving forward? we know so much about these things and disregard it.. with that in mind, i like to turn the table and ask you, are we really progressing? is this modern era truly better?

dont get me wrong, many innovations have benefited humanity like i said..such as medicine, technology...the fact i can talk to my family back home over seas, or that we can cure many deadly diseases..

i iguess my point in all is that just cuz its modern, doesn't mean its better. you claim that the values of religion are good..(dont murder, steal, cheat etc) thats true, in Islam, God calls these basic values "Fitra" meaning "natural inclination", but that religion or "Deen" meanign, way of life, is more to it that just knowing that killing is wrong...Religion should be a way of life..a life of guidance..
 
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Let me ask you a question. Is murder wrong because God says it is wrong, or because God KNOWS it is wrong? Meaning..it is simply wrong and God knows this as a fact, or did it become wrong because God stated it?
 
GodsWrath said:
Modern society now has AIDS which is new from sexual pervsions, its modern isnt' it?
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And all part of God's creation. Didn't he make every living thing?

I understand your point about saying that not everything modern and progressive is necessarily an improvement, however exactly the same thing can be said about everything that is traditional and conservative. As a follower of the teachings of the Lord Buddha, I would suggest that there is a middle way that, using the intellect and insight that we are all capable of, you can come to an understanding and judgement on the aspects of life and behaviour that promote a healthy and happy mind and a fulfilling life. The reason Buddhism does not have the same body of dogma as many other philosophies is because every human is both entirely different and yet a part of the same creation. It's up to you to decide your own morality. Getting up to all kinds of sexual shenanigans is probably likely to cause you and others pain and damage, but you have to be the one to decide whether what you do is helping or harming. If you don't believe it, you won't see it through in any case.

I thoroughly believe that the sexual revolution in the west since the 1960s has liberated millions of people from spiritual and existential harm. It has also damaged many, many people too. Nothing is wholly good or wholly bad. I don't believe in the duality of good and evil. I guess that makes us different.

I respect you and that difference, but I would ask you not to make sweeping and incorrect statements such as "Modern society now has AIDS which is new from sexual perversions". This is not true. It was a naturally occurring mutation of a virus that was spread and exacerbated through ignorance and it has been tackled and fought back through openess and enlightened thought, not through the imposition of moralistic repression.
 
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Sexually transmitted diseases are also not even remotely of the "modern age". They have plagued mankind for a very very long time. And AIDS is not the first that kills.
As for is the modern world better? This depends entirely on your point of view. Remember, I cannot discuss this with you from a spiritual basis, as I am not spiritual. To my way of thinking, nothing is universal, and nothing is never ending. The world, its people, its ideals, its loves, its hates, its trials are in a constant state of flux. What is wrong today may be perfectly okay tomorrow. What is perfectly okay today might be considered a heinous act tomorrow. Holy books such as the Bible and the Koran, or even the teachings of the Buddha should be taken ONLY as guides to life, not as exact blueprints. I know this defies your beliefs, I am merely stating mine.
 
I seriously considered Taoism for a while. I am rather fond of the concept, and it was appealing to me. Upon researching more though I came across one of the principle tenants of Taoism, and promptly laughed for about 10 minutes. damn..I woulda loved to say I was a Taoist.
 
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GodsWrath said:
thanks for the clarification. i think i see your point... you are speaking from the point of view that the books were written by men and men are fallible so they're views can be challenged, refuted, and discarded over time like scientic theories or fashion statements. But when God says that the shariah is universal till the end of time it means it is applicaBle and even the best option for every age. Modern society now has AIDS which is new from sexual pervsions, its modern isnt' it?...Chastity is an "old and backwards" view, but sexual freedom is modern..is this better? i mean, they say having sexual partners and what not is good for our character and buildling of relationships...but is that true? something liek 60% of marriages become divorce...

I go to school being told we live in a society of progress. Do we? My grandma from Iran got married at the age of 13 and she is the brightest woman i know...in many countries, kids at the age of 10 are working at home, helping their mom, their dad at teh shops...In America, a large percentage of kids are addicted to internet pornography and TV. In california, in the 1800's, the legal age of consent was 14. in hawaii in 2001 it was 10... is this progression? are we truly moving forward? we know so much about these things and disregard it.. with that in mind, i like to turn the table and ask you, are we really progressing? is this modern era truly better?

dont get me wrong, many innovations have benefited humanity like i said..such as medicine, technology...the fact i can talk to my family back home over seas, or that we can cure many deadly diseases..

i iguess my point in all is that just cuz its modern, doesn't mean its better. you claim that the values of religion are good..(dont murder, steal, cheat etc) thats true, in Islam, God calls these basic values "Fitra" meaning "natural inclination", but that religion or "Deen" meanign, way of life, is more to it that just knowing that killing is wrong...Religion should be a way of life..a life of guidance..
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Lets see Mohammad married Aisha at 9 is that progress? Oh but its ok because it was the prophet. You are completely brainwashed there is no helping you. Ladies and gentlemen this is the moderate muslim. You know what, life is BETTER now then the 8th century. There is something called human rights which apparently your religious theocracies rank dead last in the world. Chopping a thief's hand off is not justice it's wrong and the culmination of learned civilization agrees. There is something called democracy and representative republics that the Islamic civilization can never embrace. You seed discontent and believe we are the ones who caused your downfall from grace when it is your inability to be self critical that is ultimately what has felled you. You cannot even admit that Dhimmitude is wrong, for all I know you probably believe in it. Let me give you a lesson in the power of belief. The most powerful belief is not one that is compelled but instead one that is freely given. Your religion takes the most powerful aspect of the human being away from them. The ability to choose your own destiny and willingly face the results in the afterlife if there is one. It is not your right nor Islams to choose my destiny and guide my hand, I am the master of my own soul and no matter how many times you threaten me with damnation for my false beliefs will I ever submit, for submission is the opposite of freedom and God gave me the choice to follow him. I do not need sharia or another sinful man making decisions in my life, I know whats right and what is wrong and will be damned if you think I would ever accept your archaic rules. Christ taught the basic tenants of life and gave us a choice, a choice of an outstretch hand and not one by the sword or financial servitude.
 
opinion8tdwench said:
Let me ask you a question. Is murder wrong because God says it is wrong, or because God KNOWS it is wrong? Meaning..it is simply wrong and God knows this as a fact, or did it become wrong because God stated it?
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It's wrong because He decided it would be wrong and told us not to do it and made it fitrah (natural inclination) for humans to know it's wrong same wrong feeling ppl get when when ppl are naked in front of other ppl. or the guilt a child has when he takes sometign that doesn't belong to him unjustly.. God made it fitrah to feel that and he confirmed that wrong feeling with the exlicit law prohibiting it.

I highly recommend you read this article too: Sumbul Ali-Karamali: Who's Afraid of Shariah?
 
So if he decided it would be wrong, then this means that he could change his mind at any time? see, this makes no sense to me. This would make right at wrong totally subjective and potentially subject to change at any time. As for a natural sense of right and wrong? Sorry..that I don't buy. A child does not feel shame running around the house naked. A child does not feel guild if he takes something that does not belong to him. They feel those things only after they have been taught they are wrong. If you teach a child to steal or kill..killing and stealing will not feel "wrong" to them. We have no inborn morality.
 
opinion8tdwench said:
I came across one of the principle tenants of Taoism, and promptly laughed for about 10 minutes.
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Ain't you gonna share? See, with a lot of ideas in Buddhism, especially Zen, laughing would be exactly the right response. "What's the sound of one hand clapping?" Get out of here! But you can't help thinking about it.
 
hafez said:
Lets see Mohammad married Aisha at 9 is that progress? Oh but its ok because it was the prophet. You are completely brainwashed there is no helping you. Ladies and gentlemen this is the moderate muslim. You know what, life is BETTER now then the 8th century. There is something called human rights which apparently your religious theocracies rank dead last in the world. Chopping a thief's hand off is not justice it's wrong and the culmination of learned civilization agrees. There is something called democracy and representative republics that the Islamic civilization can never embrace. You seed discontent and believe we are the ones who caused your downfall from grace when it is your inability to be self critical that is ultimately what has felled you. You cannot even admit that Dhimmitude is wrong, for all I know you probably believe in it. Let me give you a lesson in the power of belief. The most powerful belief is not one that is compelled but instead one that is freely given. Your religion takes the most powerful aspect of the human being away from them. The ability to choose your own destiny and willingly face the results in the afterlife if there is one. It is not your right nor Islams to choose my destiny and guide my hand, I am the master of my own soul and no matter how many times you threaten me with damnation for my false beliefs will I ever submit, for submission is the opposite of freedom and God gave me the choice to follow him. I do not need sharia or another sinful man making decisions in my life, I know whats right and what is wrong and will be damned if you think I would ever accept your archaic rules. Christ taught the basic tenants of life and gave us a choice, a choice of an outstretch hand and not one by the sword or financial servitude.
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Let me first suggest with a deep breath... there isn't compulsion in religion...u seem to be a very angered person...
What about Aiysha? she was given away by her parents to the Prophet...she was 9? she was actually 14 and like i said, my grandma was 13 when she got married. whats ur point?

please, get your mind out of teh gutter...u act like Aiysha is some hidden name that ppl dont know about. its one of the most common muslim names! and plus, when girls are molested and raped, they grow up to be very introvert and socially awkward...was Aiysha like this? NO. after the Prophet died, she became a narrator of many SOUND narrations fo the Prophet..ppl would travel across teh world to seek her advice on Islam. she was a prominent teacher of Islam, having first hand experience with teh Prophet!

ladies and gentle, this is a smokescreen dont be fooled...

I can say the same about Christianity....What do you think about a God that decides to enter teh world through the birth canal of a 12 year old virgin (Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus the Messiah)...hmmm? sounds like a unmoral God to me!

im throwing the same stones ur throwing at me! im not attacking ur character or ur religion, im the one holding my peace and holding my ground..ur the one begin belligerent.

The Qur'an says that: God could have made everyone into one people, but elected not to (11:118); God made us into different nations and tribes so that we can learn from one another (49:13); there is no compulsion in religion (2:256); and that we should say, "to you your religion, to me mine" (109:6)

i ask you, if you are going to attack my religion and prophet, then please, keep it to yourself
 
hafez said:
Lets see Mohammad married Aisha at 9 is that progress? Oh but its ok because it was the prophet. You are completely brainwashed there is no helping you. Ladies and gentlemen this is the moderate muslim. You know what, life is BETTER now then the 8th century. There is something called human rights which apparently your religious theocracies rank dead last in the world. Chopping a thief's hand off is not justice it's wrong and the culmination of learned civilization agrees. There is something called democracy and representative republics that the Islamic civilization can never embrace. You seed discontent and believe we are the ones who caused your downfall from grace when it is your inability to be self critical that is ultimately what has felled you. You cannot even admit that Dhimmitude is wrong, for all I know you probably believe in it. Let me give you a lesson in the power of belief. The most powerful belief is not one that is compelled but instead one that is freely given. Your religion takes the most powerful aspect of the human being away from them. The ability to choose your own destiny and willingly face the results in the afterlife if there is one. It is not your right nor Islams to choose my destiny and guide my hand, I am the master of my own soul and no matter how many times you threaten me with damnation for my false beliefs will I ever submit, for submission is the opposite of freedom and God gave me the choice to follow him. I do not need sharia or another sinful man making decisions in my life, I know whats right and what is wrong and will be damned if you think I would ever accept your archaic rules. Christ taught the basic tenants of life and gave us a choice, a choice of an outstretch hand and not one by the sword or financial servitude.
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Sorry..this doesnt really fly. You have the choice to follow god or not? of course you do. As does the Muslim. If you choose not to follow god, you are damned for all eternity. That is one hell of a choice, if you dont mind me saying.
 
Andalublue said:
Ain't you gonna share? See, with a lot of ideas in Buddhism, especially Zen, laughing would be exactly the right response. "What's the sound of one hand clapping?" Get out of here! But you can't help thinking about it.
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Sorry..I felt it needed a bit of buildup. One of the primary tenants of Taoism is the belief that all men are inherently good. Oh yes..I laughed.
 
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