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Thread: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

  1. #151
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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    People who burn books tend not to read books.

    The Irony is that the Quran copied quite alot of the Bible, so its almost like they are burning the bible as well lol.
    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." ~ Isaac Asimov

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    I am rather appalled at the horrible displays of jr jigh mentality I am seeing from some of the posts here. "he started it" and "Well, he hit me first" is petty, childish, and counter productive. Tit for tat? Really? Really?
    Yes, radicals in many Muslim parts of the world have burned American flags, and staged many other demonstrations against the United States. Does this mean that it is a good thing for us to stoop to their level and do the same to them? Come on people, grow up!
    This horrid excuse for a man of god has every right to burn every single Koran he has, provided these books are his to burn. The United States government, and every single person in it has the right to condemn his actions and call him a worthless waste of oxygen if we so choose.
    This is going to play very poorly to the radical factions within Islam, but I do wonder if the very obvious outrage of the American people on the whole, and the condemnation from our government might make the sane and reasonable Muslims look upon us more favorably. This one insane act of intolerance and hate might very well bring our religions closer to an understanding of one another. We can only hope.
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  3. #153
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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    you apologize for your faith subjecting myslef, my family and friends to a dhimmi status and we will talk. It is YOUR religion that proclaimed I must never speak of my views to a muslim, it is your religion that refused our congregation the ability to renovate our church and it is your religion that forced us to be chided day in and day out by "moderate" muslims like yourself. The difference between you and I is I believe I am right but am willing to regard you as equals. You on the other hand think you are right and consider your path the truth and try to force it down my throat. But the facts are you can't apologize to one who is so clearly wrong, why should you apologize for an infidels rejection of Allah surely my treatment is just.

    explain this one

    Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216 - Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

    and you really don't want to start talking about the hadiths do you?
    First of all, speak for yourself..

    now, unlike yourself, i will address the verse u just pulled out of the hat...

    The Qur'an makes it clear that, whether we want it or not, war is a necessity of existence, a fact of life, so long as there exist in the world injustice, oppression, capricious ambitions, and arbitrary claims. This may sound strange. But is it not a matter of historical record that humanity from the early dawn of history up till now has suffered from local, civil and global wars? And is it not also a fact that, more often than not, victorious allies settle their disputes over their gains and the status of their vanquished enemies through wars and threats of war?

    FYI, teh Quran is not a buffet, u can't just pick teh surahs u dont like and start to judge the entirety of the book based of that..

    dont get me wrong, there are mnay muslims today who do things completely contrary to the teachings of Islam...but then again, religion goes wrong. (afterall, i dont judge Jesus's teachigns of the bible when i see Christian evangelics bomb abortion clinics, or teh crusades"

    So it’s clear that war is not an objective of Islam nor is it the normal course of Muslims. It is only the last resort and is used under the most extra ordinary circumstances when all other measures fail. This is the actual status of war in Islam. Islam is the religion of peace: its meaning is peace; one of Allah’s Names is Peace; the daily greetings of Muslims and angels are peace; Paradise is the abode of peace, the adjective “Muslim” means Peaceful. Peace is the nature, the meaning, the emblem and the objective of Islam. Every being is entitled to enjoy the peace of Islam and the kindness of the peaceful Muslims, regardless of religious or geographical or racial considerations, so long as there is no aggression against Islam or the Muslims. If non-Muslims are peaceful with the Muslims or even indifferent to Islam, there can be no ground or justification to declare war on them. There is no such thing as religious war to force Islam on non-Muslims, because if Islam does not emerge from deep convictions, from within, it is not acceptable to Allah, nor can it help its professor.

    now, since u love buffets, ima start question the Bible.

    1. In genesis ch 30 Jacob takes stripped rods and put it in a troth and had animals looking at it while they mated. the offsrpings then came out with stripped fur. in other words, if im having intercourse with my wife while watchign Barney the big purple dinosaur, my kids will be born big, purple, and have a tail.

    2. Bible said earth is 5768 yrs old. look at the geneology of luke, (Even one Christian evangelical tried to convince christians that dinosaurs and humans once lived peacefully on earth...ummm, sorry brother, but thats the flintstones)

    3. in Dueteronomy ch 21 it talks about having sex with captives

    4. Book of Magi, it talks about zorastrian priests from Iran following a star, hovering over a stable...Do you know how big a star is? physically impossible

    5. In Dueteronomy, Jesus says, "The kings that dont accept me, brign them hither and slay them before me"

    AND LAST BUT DEF NOT LEAST,

    6 Ezekiel ch 23. verses 20 and 21

    "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."

    you have some explaining to do my friend

    i rest my case

  4. #154
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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Godswrath, let me give you a tip. I am not in any way saying you are not correct, but take the advice of one who argues with Christians on a regular basis. As an atheist, I have studied most of the major religions extensively. One cannot rightly profess a disbelief in something they have no real knowledge of, yes? Anyway..my point. When quoting scripture to christians, try as often as you possibly can to quote only New testament. Most Christians seem to believe that the old testament is just old hat, and doesnt matter anymore. However, if you wish to really bring out the big guns, as far as the OT goes, make sure to always bring up Ole Joshua and his march through the promised lands, slaughtering anything and everything in his path, as well as good old fashioned rape and pillage.

    I do not much like the Muslim faith..I do not much like the Christian faith. As an atheist, I can't help but look at all this mess and think that this world would be so much better off without either. But then..man is good at finding things to fight over, so that's probably not true.

    ANY follower of any religion can pick and choose the bits of their religion that they like, and most do just that. I don't know a single Christian who doenst raise an eyebrow at some of the stuff in the holy book, and while I have no close muslim friends to discuss the Koran with, I would be willing to bet, that a good chunk of them also have a few "huh?" moments over their own holy book.

    But what so many seem to forget on both sides of the spiritual fence, is that these books were written a VERY long time ago, and the world has moved on a fair bit since then. this is not to say many of the lessons and values are not still very valid, and very helpful. But one cannot read them completely and utterly literally, and it is rare that they can be taken at face value.
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

  5. #155
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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by opinion8tdwench View Post
    Godswrath, let me give you a tip. I am not in any way saying you are not correct, but take the advice of one who argues with Christians on a regular basis. As an atheist, I have studied most of the major religions extensively. One cannot rightly profess a disbelief in something they have no real knowledge of, yes? Anyway..my point. When quoting scripture to christians, try as often as you possibly can to quote only New testament. Most Christians seem to believe that the old testament is just old hat, and doesnt matter anymore. However, if you wish to really bring out the big guns, as far as the OT goes, make sure to always bring up Ole Joshua and his march through the promised lands, slaughtering anything and everything in his path, as well as good old fashioned rape and pillage.

    I do not much like the Muslim faith..I do not much like the Christian faith. As an atheist, I can't help but look at all this mess and think that this world would be so much better off without either. But then..man is good at finding things to fight over, so that's probably not true.

    ANY follower of any religion can pick and choose the bits of their religion that they like, and most do just that. I don't know a single Christian who doenst raise an eyebrow at some of the stuff in the holy book, and while I have no close muslim friends to discuss the Koran with, I would be willing to bet, that a good chunk of them also have a few "huh?" moments over their own holy book.

    But what so many seem to forget on both sides of the spiritual fence, is that these books were written a VERY long time ago, and the world has moved on a fair bit since then. this is not to say many of the lessons and values are not still very valid, and very helpful. But one cannot read them completely and utterly literally, and it is rare that they can be taken at face value.
    Hm, well thanks for the insight...as far as teh quran being written a long time ago and therefore not being much applicable to us any longer...why is that? have humans really changed? what has changed about us? technology and medicine for hte most part...

    other htan that, not much has changed, we still need to eat, sleep, reproduce..ppl still get upset, jealous, happy...ppl still die, wars still exist, coexistence still exists..there still murder...

    not much has changed my friend, just standars of living has "improved"... i mean, time are changing but with what respect... as far as scriptures raising ''huh?" im missing you point...

    as far as teh Old Testament..sure the New testament can't be ignored, but let me remind you... The God of the Old Testament is the SAMEEE God as the New Testament, unless your a Marcionite of course, who believe teh God of hte old testament was an inferior God to that of the new testament, (and they had a good reason to believe that)...

    as far as quoting scriptures from teh new testament, there are still scriptures that i have trouble understanding... Luke 12:47 (talkign about flogging yoru slaves)

    anywho, since ur an athiest, i must say, i've spoke to many athiests, and i must say, u have some interesting points about teh nature of life..

    fyi, im still learning all this.. im only 20 years old

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I don't care for what the church is doing, but part of being in the military in the US is standing up for our freedoms. I think what the church is doing is ****ty, but they are free to do it under our constitution, and that is what soldiers, in the long run, are fighting for, our rights under that constitution.
    The soldiers should also be in NY, protecting freedom of religion.

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    The *Islamic center* is the problem. . . I think everyone's clear that this isn't *just* a mosque.
    As long as it is not a shooting range, some sort of camp where jihadists can train or where fundamentalist islamism is taught, I don't see any problem with that mosque.

    Americans talk a lot about protecting their freedom, but they're are denying freedom of religion to their own countrymen.

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    you apologize for your faith subjecting myslef, my family and friends to a dhimmi status and we will talk. It is YOUR religion that proclaimed I must never speak of my views to a muslim, it is your religion that refused our congregation the ability to renovate our church and it is your religion that forced us to be chided day in and day out by "moderate" muslims like yourself. The difference between you and I is I believe I am right but am willing to regard you as equals. You on the other hand think you are right and consider your path the truth and try to force it down my throat.
    Based on your interactions, it appears to me that you have a history that has greatly affected your judgement on this subject, as well as your ability to be objective. God's Wrath hasn't done anything but counter your claims.

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Americans talk a lot about protecting their freedom, but they're are denying freedom of religion to their own countrymen.
    This is a misstatement. No one has denied the mosque's requests. People have spoken out against having a mosque there, but that is only to be expected in a country with free speech. The mosque-builders rights have been protected.

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    Re: US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

    It is not that they are not applicable to us anymore, it is that the way we deal with our problems, etc has changed. The Bible speaks of stoning adulterers, as does the Koran. Most modern people do not feel this is an appropriate punishment. I cant help but think that even in the Sharia ruled countries where it is still done, a good portion of the citizens are not particularly fond of the practice. What needs to be looked at, instead of taking the stoning literally, is that adultery is a BAD thing. Both sides can agree with this. Honoring our vows, and being true, honest and faithful are concepts both Muslims and Christians can get behind. See what I mean? The principles have changed, but more modern thinking has us dealing with these things in different ways. The concepts..the morality..all these things are still valid. It is the way we approach them that has changed.
    The Bible has woman walking always behind her man, and being obedient to him in every way. Modern (well, for the most part) thinking sees the two as helpmates (which is also mentioned in the bible) and supporting each other, with neither being the lord and master. One can show respect without being subservient. In the days when these holy books were written, it was probably kinda important that a woman do as she was told by her man, not because she was unable to think for herself, but because she had never been taught anything, and also because with the infancy death rate being as it was, her presence at the home pumping out babies was kinda essential to the survival of the species. Horrible, yes..but true for the time. We are moving past that now, and appreciating that a woman can contribute things besides being a baby factory. Again..the concept of respecting your mate is still there..but treated in a different way.
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