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Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

phattonez said:
Yes all those things sound nice, but in the end, they need to justify their existence in the market and if they can't then they probably shouldn't exist. If the support from the community is there, they can also fundraise. However, if they're failing it's because the market share for their goods is not that big. So I have no problem with them shrinking. As I said I'm not going to second guess the value judgments of others. In fact, I don't see much of a benefit in terms of food from a family farm and a corporate farm, so I'm probably also one of those evil consumers that aren't supporting the lovely family farms. If they want to exist in the market then they need to justify it to consumers.



You would need the government to keep your patent privilege over the technology. It wouldn't last forever until someone else discovered the same technology. Remember that patents and copyrights are not market phenomenon.
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More you probably don't know the difference in quality. Visit a hog confindment sometime. You can usually smell it a dozen or so miles before you get there. you might see what I mean if you did.

I buy from a local farmer, fresh and free range. Stop by sometime and I'll show you the dffierence in the meat.

BTW, I wasn't even arguing patent or copyrights. Sheer force of my putting them out of business because i could handle loss longer than they could, and once they are out, i have the market, . . . remember? ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
More you probably don't know the difference in quality. Visit a hog confindment sometime. You can usually smell it a dozen or so miles before you get there. you might see what I mean if you did.

I buy from a local farmer, fresh and free range. Stop by sometime and I'll show you the dffierence in the meat.
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I probably would actually love to see the difference, but as a poor student, I probably couldn't afford it. ;)

BTW, I wasn't even arguing patent or copyrights. Sheer force of my putting them out of business because i could handle loss longer than they could, and once they are out, i have the market, . . . remember? ;)
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Then find proof of that happening.
 
phattonez said:
I probably would actually love to see the difference, but as a poor student, I probably couldn't afford it. ;)


Then find proof of that happening.
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Find a farmer and work out a relationship. They ususually can seel you bulk cheapter than in the store. One farmer charged me pennies, but I had to cut it up myself. it was worth it.

As for the rest, we've been discussing a hypothtical. But i will seek a real case later if you like. I'm not sure why, but I will tommorrow when I get time.
 
Boo Radley said:
Find a farmer and work out a relationship. They ususually can seel you bulk cheapter than in the store. One farmer charged me pennies, but I had to cut it up myself. it was worth it.
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If I'm just cooking for myself, I don't see any reason to buy in bulk. In fact, this seems like a lot of hassle for something with no discernible benefit.

As for the rest, we've been discussing a hypothtical. But i will seek a real case later if you like. I'm not sure why, but I will tommorrow when I get time.
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I'll be glad to hear it.
 
phattonez said:
Well yes, that's a separate issue and I generally don't defend government intrusions. But if the market decides that family farms are not worthwhile, then who am I to second-guess the decisions of others?
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I'm not certain you understand what happened here.

It is the government who says the farmer can't sell or give away his produce, not the market.
 
pbrauer said:
Why? What's wrong with the government forcing a minimum wage? If you can't afford paying minimum wage, then you probably should not be in business.
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first it is a clear violation of the tenth amendment

secondly, some people are not worth minimum wage and if you are forced to pay somone more than what they will produce you will not hire him

minimum wage is mainly pushed by the unions to inflate their wages since many union wages and prevailing Davis-Bacon wage scales are based on application of a multiplier to the minimum wage. Thus a dollar hike in the MW often means a 3-4 dollar increase in a union wage.
 
Grant said:
I'm not certain you understand what happened here.

It is the government who says the farmer can't sell or give away his produce, not the market.
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And I oppose that and most government intrusion in the market. But if the market is deciding they should shrink I have no problem with it. I'm not saying the government action here was a market signal, I said it was a separate issue. I oppose the government intervention here, but support the market calling for the family farms to go away because they're not profitable. To get as clear as I can here, what government did was wrong, but what the market is doing is right.
 
phattonez said:
And I oppose that and most government intrusion in the market. But if the market is deciding they should shrink I have no problem with it. I'm not saying the government action here was a market signal, I said it was a separate issue. I oppose the government intervention here, but support the market calling for the family farms to go away because they're not profitable. To get as clear as I can here, what government did was wrong, but what the market is doing is right.
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But the marketplace isnt saying they should shrink!Where did you read that?

This is the government saying you can't have a garden.

It crazy and outrageous!
 
Grant said:
But the marketplace isnt saying they should shrink!Where did you read that?

This is the government saying you can't have a garden.

It crazy and outrageous!
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Yes, it is crazy and outrageous. You don't get it and I'm not going to keep trying to explain this to you. I'm talking about 2 separate issues, take some time in reading.
 
phattonez said:
If I'm just cooking for myself, I don't see any reason to buy in bulk. In fact, this seems like a lot of hassle for something with no discernible benefit.
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There's plenty of benefit. It's cheaper. The meat is better, fresher, and often cleaner. And the money stays local.
 
Boo Radley said:
There's plenty of benefit. It's cheaper. The meat is better, fresher, and often cleaner. And the money stays local.
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If it's cheaper then why aren't people buying it? And I seen no benefit in keeping money local. People are people, all the same, so I'll give my money to whoever wins my business (as long as they're not criminals or dangerous or anything like that).
 
phattonez said:
If it's cheaper then why aren't people buying it? And I seen no benefit in keeping money local. People are people, all the same, so I'll give my money to whoever wins my business (as long as they're not criminals or dangerous or anything like that).
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They have to find a farmer and do what i do. People don't make choices based on price alone. But farmers had to take to this more hands on door to door approach to combat the intrusion of corrpurate farms. Like I said, you really should visit a hog confindment. If you did, you might see what I'm talking about.

You might also want to have some concern about water pollution, as many in Iowa have:

In April 1997, land application of hog manure from a DeCoster farm confinement ran down a Wright County ADW and contaminated the area's water supply aquifer. The EPA fined DeCoster $10,000 under the federal Safe Drinking Water Act for contamination of the aquifer.24

In 1997, Iowa passed new legislation to address potential pollution through the highest-risk ADWs.25 Now, all ADWs that are within a drainage area that includes a permitted earthen manure storage structure must be closed by December 31, 1999. This includes about 20 ADWs in Wright County. New construction or expansion of an earthen manure storage structure within an area that is drained by an ADW is now prohibited.26 However, some 270 ADWs still remain in operation in the state, notes Susan Heathcote of the Iowa Environmental Council. They are located in farm areas where there is a risk of contamination from spills of other types of manure storage, such as concrete pits, and from the application of manure on fields.

NRDC: America's Animal Factories - Iowa
 
They can buy in bulk from a farmer just as they can from a family farm. The fact then still seems to remain that corporate farms are cheaper than family farms.

As for pollution, anyone is capable of it. I just want laws to be enforced and pollution that has not been approved to be prosecuted.
 
phattonez said:
They can buy in bulk from a farmer just as they can from a family farm. The fact then still seems to remain that corporate farms are cheaper than family farms.

As for pollution, anyone is capable of it. I just want laws to be enforced and pollution that has not been approved to be prosecuted.
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Well, all I can tell you is you should take the time to visit a hog confindment. It will do more than anything I can say. You might also stop in on a state representative local meeting sometime here in town. The anger over them might surprise you, espeically from people who can no longer swim in the local lakes.
 
Boo Radley said:
Well, all I can tell you is you should take the time to visit a hog confindment. It will do more than anything I can say. You might also stop in on a state representative local meeting sometime here in town. The anger over them might surprise you, espeically from people who can no longer swim in the local lakes.
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The pollution is a GOVERNMENT problem. If pollution is that bad, then the government is not doing enough to crack down on polluters.

And like I said, maybe it is nicer on a family farm, but I can't afford the prices. Whatever is cheapest for me is probably going to be best. But, some can afford the quality and more power to them. For most though, the extra cost just isn't worth the benefit.
 
phattonez said:
The pollution is a GOVERNMENT problem. If pollution is that bad, then the government is not doing enough to crack down on polluters.

And like I said, maybe it is nicer on a family farm, but I can't afford the prices. Whatever is cheapest for me is probably going to be best. But, some can afford the quality and more power to them. For most though, the extra cost just isn't worth the benefit.
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And I tell you, cheap is always better. You may find you pay more for it later on. And you might think about that latest egg problem.

I went with the first source on my search. There are others:

. . . conditions in factory farms are ideal for the spread of infection: “The propensity for a problem is magnified under the fecal particulate air in these industrial egg farms. What it does is it breaks down the immune system and creates openings for pathogens. If you were trying to design a pathogen-friendly system, you would go to a single species, crowd that species together, deny it fresh air, exercise, and sunshine, never give it a rest time—have it there 365 days a year, and feed it a diet that maximizes a minimal standard of performance, rather than maximizes nutrition or feed that is nutritionally superior. What I’ve just described is Egg Factory Farming 101. This is just symptomatic of the pathogen-friendly nature of industrial agriculture.”

Egg Recall: The Truth About Industrial Farming - The Daily Beast
 
The egg problem isn't even that bad. Just cook your eggs a little more and you have no problem at all. In fact, I'm eating eggs that I'm suspecting may be tainted. However, I've just been scrambling them, and no problems.
 
This is proof Obama plays to the weak minded who like him don't understand how our economy works and who it is that spend the most which creates a need to make more of what ever it is they buy. Further more they create most of the jobs and start most new businesses.

In other words he is once again showing that he is a total amateur and a major dumb ass.

See you in the poor house or the Obama gulags or re-education camps to come.
 
phattonez said:
The egg problem isn't even that bad. Just cook your eggs a little more and you have no problem at all. In fact, I'm eating eggs that I'm suspecting may be tainted. However, I've just been scrambling them, and no problems.
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It's bad enough, but it is just an example of problems that can crop up.
 
Councilman said:
This is proof Obama plays to the weak minded who like him don't understand how our economy works and who it is that spend the most which creates a need to make more of what ever it is they buy. Further more they create most of the jobs and start most new businesses.

In other words he is once again showing that he is a total amateur and a major dumb ass.

See you in the poor house or the Obama gulags or re-education camps to come.
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When you say stuff like that.

You simply cannot be taken seriously...
 
Councilman said:
This is proof Obama plays to the weak minded who like him don't understand how our economy works and who it is that spend the most which creates a need to make more of what ever it is they buy. Further more they create most of the jobs and start most new businesses.

In other words he is once again showing that he is a total amateur and a major dumb ass.

See you in the poor house or the Obama gulags or re-education camps to come.
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Damn that was stupid.
 
Boo Radley said:
Damn that was stupid.
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I'd say you libs have a major problem if statements like that can even be envisioned by the public. Whether they would happen or not, the fact that people can see an instance where this President would willingly resort to that type of society to maintain control is troubling.


j-mac
 
phattonez said:
So a family farm has never produced a tainted egg before?
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I would not use the word never, but far less likely due to the different conditions. The conditions at a corrporate farm make it more likely.
 
j-mac said:
I'd say you libs have a major problem if statements like that can even be envisioned by the public. Whether they would happen or not, the fact that people can see an instance where this President would willingly resort to that type of society to maintain control is troubling.


j-mac
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So, if peopel are stupid, that's someone else's fault? We're not responsible for our own abilty to reason? I do wish you guys would take some personal repsonsibility sometime.

;)
 
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