• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

The difference is when you rich people get taxed you lose luxuries.... when we get taxed we lose essentials.

And you lose the investment dollars that they would have provided the capital for many jobs.
 
2. If people like you were required to pay a living wage rather than the 3rd world nonse you currently offer, welfare wouldn't be needed. Since you refuse to copromise you are STUCK. You cannot have both. Pick one and stiffle about the other.

You tell them Vader! There's no such thing as scarcity!
 
And you lose the investment dollars that they would have provided the capital for many jobs.
If they use the money to 'create' jobs and the Bush tax cuts have been in effect for almost ten years..... How come there are very little jobs to be had these days?
 
2. If people like you were required to pay a living wage rather than the 3rd world nonse you currently offer, welfare wouldn't be needed.

people should pay what the job is worth. no where in the constitution are you promised a living wage. You don't like making minimum wage? learn how to do more than ask "do you want fries with that?"

I don't get why many liberals always harp on the "living wage" angle. You should be paid what the service you provide is worth to your employer. want to get paid more? be worth more.

Isn't that why you are going to college right now? to make yourself more valuable to an employer?
 
people should pay what the job is worth. no where in the constitution are you promised a living wage. You don't like making minimum wage? learn how to do more than ask "do you want fries with that?"

I don't get why many liberals always harp on the "living wage" angle. You should be paid what the service you provide is worth to your employer. want to get paid more? be worth more.

Isn't that why you are going to college right now? to make yourself more valuable to an employer?

What's a job worth? To who? Isn't in more a negotiation of how much I will pay and how much you will do it for, and worth has less to do with than other factors?
 
What's a job worth? To who? Isn't in more a negotiation of how much I will pay and how much you will do it for, and worth has less to do with than other factors?

what the job is worth to the employer. If you don't want to work for what they are offering you are free to go work somewhere else. I am sure there is an illegal alien who would be more than happy to take your place.

Why do you think a Big Mac cost's $3 bucks these days? the price of beef hasn't gone thru the roof. they don't have to pay $2 a pop for buns. hell they don't even have to pay for those styrofoam containers anymore. A big mac costs $3 because mickey D is forced to pay some brain dead loser $7.25 to stand behind a counter and ask you if you want to biggee size it.
 
Last edited:
What's a job worth? To who? Isn't in more a negotiation of how much I will pay and how much you will do it for, and worth has less to do with than other factors?

Above where the worker thinks he will be compensated adequately and below the total value that the worker adds to the company. So basically, where both sides benefit.
 
Above where the worker thinks he will be compensated adequately and below the total value that the worker adds to the company. So basically, where both sides benefit.

and who benefits the most when a company has to pay someone $7.25 an hour to sweep floors or empty trash cans?
 
and who benefits the most when a company has to pay someone $7.25 an hour to sweep floors or empty trash cans?

the unions do because union wage scales are usually based on a multiplier combined with the minimum wage. That is why its the unions that push the most for MW hikes not the slacker working at McD's
 
2. If people like you were required to pay a living wage rather than the 3rd world nonse you currently offer, welfare wouldn't be needed.

You do realize that if there was a "living wage" all that would happen is prices would go up accordingly right? Take San Antonio Texas and New York City.

Why is it everything in NYC is so expensive, and in SA it's so much cheaper yet wages in NYC are so much higher?

Hmmm?


Think these things through young one, don't just react on emotion.
 
Above where the worker thinks he will be compensated adequately and below the total value that the worker adds to the company. So basically, where both sides benefit.

That's how it works best, agreed. But factors can favor one over the other, often. But worth has very little to do with it.
 
what the job is worth to the employer. If you don't want to work for what they are offering you are free to go work somewhere else. I am sure there is an illegal alien who would be more than happy to take your place.

Why do you think a Big Mac cost's $3 bucks these days? the price of beef hasn't gone thru the roof. they don't have to pay $2 a pop for buns. hell they don't even have to pay for those styrofoam containers anymore. A big mac costs $3 because mickey D is forced to pay some brain dead loser $7.25 to stand behind a counter and ask you if you want to biggee size it.

Free go elsewhere? Doesn't that depend on other factors as well? Is it really that simple?
 
and who benefits the most when a company has to pay someone $7.25 an hour to sweep floors or empty trash cans?

Well, everyone benefits. The person making the $7.50 puts generates more economic activity than the person making $5.00 per hour. The increase in economic activity eventually ends up with more folk able to buy those burgers and creates a better quality of life for everyone, even the McD's owner who has to shell out more for their employees. Just taking the narrow view of a single transaction, is not the way to analyze the impact of a minimum wage.

Besides, the negotiation between empolyeer and employee is not a balanced negotiation, especially for unskilled labor. Frankly, I have someone come into my home one a week to do cleaning and they sweep floors and take out the garbage. It cost me a lot more that $7.50 per hour to have them do this.
 
why do you think its the unions who push the most for minimum wage hikes
 
What's a job worth? To who? Isn't in more a negotiation of how much I will pay and how much you will do it for, and worth has less to do with than other factors?

It's all about supply and demand, plus what the market will bare.

Just because you think you're worth, "X$", doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there that will do it for 20% less, which depreciates the value of your particular trade.

Jus common sense stuff. It's a wonder that Liberals usually don't get it.
 
That's how it works best, agreed. But factors can favor one over the other, often. But worth has very little to do with it.

If it favors one over the other then the other party wouldn't accept the deal.
 
why do you think its the unions who push the most for minimum wage hikes

Becuase goonion payscales are based on their value relative to the minimm wage. If Slug X is getting 3 times the minimum wage and then that peridious congress raises the minimum wage so that Slug X is now only getting 2.7 times the minimum wage, then Slug X automatically gets a 10% raise to restore his 3xMinimum status.

Which is one the known inflationary drivers of the economy.
 
What's a job worth? To who? Isn't in more a negotiation of how much I will pay and how much you will do it for, and worth has less to do with than other factors?

Well, if an employer is willing to pay someone $10 an hour to do a job, and he finds someone willing to do the job for $8 an hour, that job is worth $8 an hour.

If he needs the job done and is willing to pay $10 an hour, and the cheapest applicant is demanding $12 an hour, the employer has to decide if the job is worth doing, and he decides it's not, the job doesn't exist and is worth nothing, or he pays $12 an hour, and the job is worth $12 an hour.

No government agency exists that can measure the value of a job. No congressional law can mandate the value of a job. The market does all that. And when the government agency and Congress get together to tell the employer that a job that isn't worth more than a couple bucks an hour is suddenly worth seven dollars an hour, then the employer is being robbed, and so are his customers, because he has to pass that inefficiency on to them or lose money.
 
Which is one the known inflationary drivers of the economy.

Nah, that would be the printing press. Union wages just makes the price of their goods more expensive, meaning that they will produce less than they otherwise would (because you can sell more at the lower price and you will never produce for more than you can recoup in the long run).
 
Well, if an employer is willing to pay someone $10 an hour to do a job, and he finds someone willing to do the job for $8 an hour, that job is worth $8 an hour.

If he needs the job done and is willing to pay $10 an hour, and the cheapest applicant is demanding $12 an hour, the employer has to decide if the job is worth doing, and he decides it's not, the job doesn't exist and is worth nothing, or he pays $12 an hour, and the job is worth $12 an hour.

No government agency exists that can measure the value of a job. No congressional law can mandate the value of a job. The market does all that. And when the government agency and Congress get together to tell the employer that a job that isn't worth more than a couple bucks an hour is suddenly worth seven dollars an hour, then the employer is being robbed, and so are his customers, because he has to pass that inefficiency on to them or lose money.

I understand that thinking completely, but worth is the wrong word. It is more need. As someone above stated, supply and demand. Not worth. We often under sell ourselves, and sometimes employers even over pay. But worth is not the word. We have no real standadrd for worth.
 
I understand that thinking completely, but worth is the wrong word. It is more need. As someone above stated, supply and demand. Not worth. We often under sell ourselves, and sometimes employers even over pay. But worth is not the word. We have no real standadrd for worth.

Worth is a vague notion that will never have a concrete meaning, at least in the way that you're using it.

And think about it like this. Say we all demand only $10 an hour with a job where we produce $30 per hour. Another company is going to start offering wages of $15 per hour. So how long will this first company keep its wages at $10 an hour when they will most certainly lose all of that talent to the company that is paying $15 per hour? Not very long. Wages tend toward marginal productivity. That is the value of a job.
 
Worth is a vague notion that will never have a concrete meaning, at least in the way that you're using it.

And think about it like this. Say we all demand only $10 an hour with a job where we produce $30 per hour. Another company is going to start offering wages of $15 per hour. So how long will this first company keep its wages at $10 an hour when they will most certainly lose all of that talent to the company that is paying $15 per hour? Not very long. Wages tend toward marginal productivity. That is the value of a job.

Only in practice, the company offering 15, goes to 20 until it pushes the other out of business, then it's 6. ;)

So was the job worth 10? 15? 20? or 6?

Like I said, worth isn't the right word. And it is why there is often contention between employer and employee.
 
call it worth or whatever you want. all I know is that it isn't right to force a company to pay some idiot $7.25 an hour to stand behind a counter at Mickey Ds or bag groceries at Safeway.
 
Back
Top Bottom