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Thread: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    It absoplutely was not. The investment bankers didnt drive housing markets higher and higher. The investment bankers didnt force people to get loans. That was the idiot that made 55k a year and decided if he rolled his truck, car, and television payments into his home loan and consolidated then he could afford a 600k home with a mortgage of 3k a month...provided they never went out to lunch, never had any car problems, convinced the kids to fast 1 day a week and only eat 1 meal a day. And of course once the variable interest rate kicked in they could refinance because the home value would have appreciated significantly...

    Everyone plays a part...but its that 98% that you mention...they are the ones that drove the housing market into the toilet.
    What caused this crisis, for the most part, was the packaging of the mortgages, that the banks knew would never fly, into derivatives and onto investors. Once those investors realized they were stuck and the money lost, they whole sale flocked from the market and the Middle Class lost their jobs, which perpetuated the increase in foreclosures, and their 401k's dropped out the bottom so they lost that as well.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Except the wealthy are not investing nor creating jobs, so no they are not helping the economy in anyway.
    Their is no logic to the idea that the wealthy are not investing. You don't have to directly invest in a given business, all you have to do is put your money in a bank or in stocks or whatever which is what 99% of wealthy people do. So you cannot say they are not helping the economy "in anyway". It is the government by perponderance of the evidence who is not helping the economy in any way as in Stimulus = No net increase in employment.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I had two questions: are the rich not investing in the stock market? Are the rich not saving money?
    I think either they are sitting on cash right now and or waiting for their equities to rebound.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Maybe I should have been clearer. What I meant was that there is no legal definition for a 'small business' so when someone, a politician or whoever else, refers to 'small business' there's no way to tell exactly what they are talking about because there's no universal definition. So when Mr. V says Obama hates small business and if someone else says he doesn't, they may actually looking at the very same facts and information, but still disagree because they have different personal definitions of the phrase small business.



    But there's no universal meaning, so when a politician says he's helping small business can't actually help a legally defined term of 'small business' what he does is change part of the tax code that say affects the amount of money a business is taxed, or not taxed, based on how many and what type of employees they have. Now if he makes that change in the area for all businesses with less than 50 people then it helps those businesses and owners who hire less than 50 people. But if I was a business owner who owned a business which employed 75, 100, or 200 people I may be still considered "small business" in the minds of many other people depending on my profits and customers, but nothing was done for me even though he said he was helping small business.

    '
    I'd like to focus on one small part of your post to point out how our tax system hurts jobs and prosperity.
    I think in the HC bill there is a 50 employee cut off for small business benifits of some kind.
    Lets use that number. If I employ 45 people, how much incentive do I have to grow if growth will hurt me?
    How about if I employ 60 people? Wouldn't it be in my own best interest to down-size?
    Obama and this adminstration does nothing to encourage growth. Everthing they've put forth so far has killed jobs. I think that might be the goal.
    We need to keep the People's tax cuts in place for everyone. They should make them permanent if they want to see this country take off and really prosper.
    These are not Bush tax cuts. He gave them to the People, and now Obama wants to take them away.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You don't create jobs just with demand if you don't have the capital with which to furnish those jobs. Demand is well and good, but without capital (provided from the rich with their saving and investing) you have nothing.

    If you want to know why unemployment is high, look to an uncertain business environment created by talk of new taxes and regulations.
    I fully realize there are other factors, but without slicing and dicing it, the cuts were supposed to create jobs and it's something that has not happened. The loss of revenue is greater than what the Iraq war has costed, so I think it's time to bring the tax back.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think either they are sitting on cash right now and or waiting for their equities to rebound.
    So even if they are not investing (which hasn't been proved), they are saving money which is a source of capital. If capital is locked up (as it is) blame uncertainty created by government with proposals for tax increases and new regulations.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The middle income group is the majority consumer market. The upper income drives the investment and job creation market. You cant have one without the other. And your positions are 'populist'.
    Representing the greatest number is indeed my position. Also, there has to be a demand for a good before you can invest in one, so thus I believe it all rests in the consumer. Of course one may create demand through advertising and the lot, but it still remains dependent on those 98% to buy and if they have no jobs then the wealthy will not for long either.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    everyone benefits from the cuts. why do liberals hate rich people so much?
    That's what they want you to believe. The evidence shows otherwise.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Representing the greatest number is indeed my position. Also, there has to be a demand for a good before you can invest in one, so thus I believe it all rests in the consumer. Of course one may create demand through advertising and the lot, but it still remains dependent on those 98% to buy and if they have no jobs then the wealthy will not for long either.
    You can't just increase demand. Production needs to shift to meet new demands. Shifting production will create temporary unemployment, and it will last longer if you propose new taxes and new regulations which causes companies to not be able to predict how much it will cost to hire new workers.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    That's what they want you to believe. The evidence shows otherwise.
    What evidence?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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