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Thread: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

  1. #261
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I guess I am just too cynical. I have seen too many of these minimum wage earners whine and cry about how they can't afford this or that...but they can afford to smoke 3 packs of cigs a day and drink 2-3 cases of beer every Friday night.

    I have a cousin who is a prime example. Moron dropped out of school at 16. married his girlfriend and proceeded to have 3 kids. works at a mobile home manufacturer making 8 buck an hour. Always complains because they never have any money and they can't afford health insurance for the kids. Him and his wife both smoke at least 2 packs of Marlboros a day each.

    you do the math. 4 packs per day X $4.00 per pack X 30 days per month = $480 Bucks a month on cigs. You can get a decent major medical policy for under $480 per month.

    A high school drop out shouldn't expect to be able to live the lifestyle of someone with a masters degree.

    No one "deserves" a living wage. They deserve the opportunity to earn a living wage.
    Well, having been poor, I know when you can't afford much, things like smoking take on greater importance (I quit 20 years ago). And when you can't have much, you feel you deserve something you really don't. But such faults are not limited to the poor or minimum wage earners. Every economic class has its set of whinners. Sadly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #262
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This is based on monopoly economics and for this to be true, I'd like you to point out to me just one monopoly that did not have the support of government.
    Well, Walmart may well be one soon.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #263
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not convinced it does anything of the kind. I can be fired if I don't do the job. My personal effort can be monitored and assessed regardless of how much you pay me. If you pay me 10 cents an hour, you won't keep me if I won't do the job and someone else will. My effort applies to keeping the job and not how much I make. In fact, too many jobs don't pay extra for effort. A nurse makes whatever the pay scale is and her productivity is nmot rewarded in any way, for example. Do we arguing that we're encouraging nurses to slack off? Is there no other motivation for the nurse?

    Many of these sterotypical hypothesis's lack any evidence to support them, and as such are suspect. I really find this one suspect.
    LOL, so you should pay people extra for doing what they were hired to do in the first place?

    First off, THEY DO. People like that get promoted. They get bonuses. They go places. But you wouldn't know them because they are the conservative Tea Party types you hate so much.

  4. #264
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    LOL, so you should pay people extra for doing what they were hired to do in the first place?

    First off, THEY DO. People like that get promoted. They get bonuses. They go places. But you wouldn't know them because they are the conservative Tea Party types you hate so much.
    Nope. I was addressing the charge that if I pay them a minimum they would just slack off. I suggest they do the job even with a certain wage set and don't need extra.

    And no, nurses don't have much promotion opportunity. They really don't. And what they have, is related to getting more education.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #265
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, Walmart may well be one soon.
    But it's not. So point out just one monopoly that did not have government support.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #266
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. I was addressing the charge that if I pay them a minimum they would just slack off. I suggest they do the job even with a certain wage set and don't need extra.

    And no, nurses don't have much promotion opportunity. They really don't. And what they have, is related to getting more education.
    Shouldn't it be that way? Nurses are not in a diagnostic role; they are basically highly trained fine restaurant waitresses.

  7. #267
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not convinced it does anything of the kind. I can be fired if I don't do the job. My personal effort can be monitored and assessed regardless of how much you pay me. If you pay me 10 cents an hour, you won't keep me if I won't do the job and someone else will. My effort applies to keeping the job and not how much I make. In fact, too many jobs don't pay extra for effort. A nurse makes whatever the pay scale is and her productivity is nmot rewarded in any way, for example. Do we arguing that we're encouraging nurses to slack off? Is there no other motivation for the nurse?

    Many of these sterotypical hypothesis's lack any evidence to support them, and as such are suspect. I really find this one suspect.
    If you have the ability to fire someone then you don't have a living wage. What about someone who works at half the productivity that they should be working at. Can we pay them half the living wage?

    Also, the nurse who slacks off gets laid off.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Shouldn't it be that way? Nurses are not in a diagnostic role; they are basically highly trained fine restaurant waitresses.
    I know some nurses who would skin you alive for that comment.

    But whether it should or not isn't the issue. The issue is that they perform, as most do, even with a set pay scale. Knowing they will make a living and and not get rich doesn't prevent them from performing, which disputes, I think, the encouraging them to slack off claim I was responding to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #269
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If you have the ability to fire someone then you don't have a living wage. What about someone who works at half the productivity that they should be working at. Can we pay them half the living wage?

    Also, the nurse who slacks off gets laid off.
    You can fire them. No one suggests you get a living wage for not working, at least not in our discussion. but we find slackers at all economic levels, and we find hard workers at all levels, and pay doesn't seem to be the major factor as best I can tell. perhaps you have more evidence than i do?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #270
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, having been poor, I know when you can't afford much, things like smoking take on greater importance (I quit 20 years ago). And when you can't have much, you feel you deserve something you really don't. But such faults are not limited to the poor or minimum wage earners. Every economic class has its set of whinners. Sadly.
    true. I grew up poor. was poor while I worked my way through college. I never felt like I deserved anything I really didn't. I guess that is why I have so very little sympathy for "the poor". I have walked a mile in their shoes, I have been there. I have never claimed to be an exceptionally gifted or talented man, so if I can pull myself up out of the poorhouse, then so can they. The fact that they do not have the desire, motivation or determination to do so pisses me off...especially when they expect me to subsidize their lifestyle through high taxes and higher priced goods and services.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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