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Thread: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

  1. #251
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    call it worth or whatever you want. all I know is that it isn't right to force a company to pay some idiot $7.25 an hour to stand behind a counter at Mickey Ds or bag groceries at Safeway.
    Maybe. But if we have people working who can't support them selves, we're not better off. While I don't have strong opinions on this, I can see why a person working a job would like to know he can at least make a minimum of some sort. Where that line should be is debatable, but I see no reason not to try and encourage paying a living wage.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    call it worth or whatever you want. all I know is that it isn't right to force a company to pay some idiot $7.25 an hour to stand behind a counter at Mickey Ds or bag groceries at Safeway.
    Why? What's wrong with the government forcing a minimum wage? If you can't afford paying minimum wage, then you probably should not be in business.


  3. #253
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. But if we have people working who can't support them selves, we're not better off. While I don't have strong opinions on this, I can see why a person working a job would like to know he can at least make a minimum of some sort. Where that line should be is debatable, but I see no reason not to try and encourage paying a living wage.
    I guess I am just too cynical. I have seen too many of these minimum wage earners whine and cry about how they can't afford this or that...but they can afford to smoke 3 packs of cigs a day and drink 2-3 cases of beer every Friday night.

    I have a cousin who is a prime example. Moron dropped out of school at 16. married his girlfriend and proceeded to have 3 kids. works at a mobile home manufacturer making 8 buck an hour. Always complains because they never have any money and they can't afford health insurance for the kids. Him and his wife both smoke at least 2 packs of Marlboros a day each.

    you do the math. 4 packs per day X $4.00 per pack X 30 days per month = $480 Bucks a month on cigs. You can get a decent major medical policy for under $480 per month.

    A high school drop out shouldn't expect to be able to live the lifestyle of someone with a masters degree.

    No one "deserves" a living wage. They deserve the opportunity to earn a living wage.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  4. #254
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe. But if we have people working who can't support them selves, we're not better off. While I don't have strong opinions on this, I can see why a person working a job would like to know he can at least make a minimum of some sort. Where that line should be is debatable, but I see no reason not to try and encourage paying a living wage.
    Because it encourages worthless behavior. Assume you only want to make that living wage. First off, under this theory, why would you work at the company where you have to work hard? You wouldn't. You would go somewhere where you could be lazy. Now what if you slack off completely? Well, you still have to be paid that living wage. So then, logically following this shouldn't firing someone be illegal because it is like paying them nothing?

    Ensuring a certain wage is nothing more than an entitlement that rewards laziness and in the end affects production which hurts all of us.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Why? What's wrong with the government forcing a minimum wage? If you can't afford paying minimum wage, then you probably should not be in business.
    whats wrong is that it screws the rest of us. the company "affords to pay" minimum wage by passing the cost along to the consumer...which (if you haven't figured it out) is you and me.

    Why should I have to pay more for products I need in order to subsidize some retard's income.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Why? What's wrong with the government forcing a minimum wage? If you can't afford paying minimum wage, then you probably should not be in business.
    Then explain the people who choose to work for those companies. Why would they make that deal unless they see themselves as better off for it?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Because it encourages worthless behavior. Assume you only want to make that living wage. First off, under this theory, why would you work at the company where you have to work hard? You wouldn't. You would go somewhere where you could be lazy. Now what if you slack off completely? Well, you still have to be paid that living wage. So then, logically following this shouldn't firing someone be illegal because it is like paying them nothing?

    Ensuring a certain wage is nothing more than an entitlement that rewards laziness and in the end affects production which hurts all of us.
    bravo, excellent point
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Only in practice, the company offering 15, goes to 20 until it pushes the other out of business, then it's 6.

    So was the job worth 10? 15? 20? or 6?

    Like I said, worth isn't the right word. And it is why there is often contention between employer and employee.
    This is based on monopoly economics and for this to be true, I'd like you to point out to me just one monopoly that did not have the support of government.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #259
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Because it encourages worthless behavior. Assume you only want to make that living wage. First off, under this theory, why would you work at the company where you have to work hard? You wouldn't. You would go somewhere where you could be lazy. Now what if you slack off completely? Well, you still have to be paid that living wage. So then, logically following this shouldn't firing someone be illegal because it is like paying them nothing?

    Ensuring a certain wage is nothing more than an entitlement that rewards laziness and in the end affects production which hurts all of us.
    I'm not convinced it does anything of the kind. I can be fired if I don't do the job. My personal effort can be monitored and assessed regardless of how much you pay me. If you pay me 10 cents an hour, you won't keep me if I won't do the job and someone else will. My effort applies to keeping the job and not how much I make. In fact, too many jobs don't pay extra for effort. A nurse makes whatever the pay scale is and her productivity is nmot rewarded in any way, for example. Do we arguing that we're encouraging nurses to slack off? Is there no other motivation for the nurse?

    Many of these sterotypical hypothesis's lack any evidence to support them, and as such are suspect. I really find this one suspect.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #260
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    Re: Obama will not extend Bush tax cuts to wealthy

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I guess I am just too cynical. I have seen too many of these minimum wage earners whine and cry about how they can't afford this or that...but they can afford to smoke 3 packs of cigs a day and drink 2-3 cases of beer every Friday night.

    I have a cousin who is a prime example. Moron dropped out of school at 16. married his girlfriend and proceeded to have 3 kids. works at a mobile home manufacturer making 8 buck an hour. Always complains because they never have any money and they can't afford health insurance for the kids. Him and his wife both smoke at least 2 packs of Marlboros a day each.

    you do the math. 4 packs per day X $4.00 per pack X 30 days per month = $480 Bucks a month on cigs. You can get a decent major medical policy for under $480 per month.

    A high school drop out shouldn't expect to be able to live the lifestyle of someone with a masters degree.

    No one "deserves" a living wage. They deserve the opportunity to earn a living wage.
    You just summed it up perfectly.

    Democrats have built a party out of telling these types that "it's not their fault." I've got some extended family like that, too, Oscar. None of them have the courage to look themselves in the mirror and deal with the reality that they created for themselves.

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