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Thread: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    First and foremost. There is no such thing as radical Islam, there is only Islam. Islam is VERY different from western Christianity. To be a follower of Islam you MUST believe that the Qu'ran is the absolute word of god. Every verse and Surah in the book is equally valid and let me tell you there are ALOT more violent verses then there are peaceful verses. In fact Islam is the ONLY, let me repeat.. the ONLY religion whose prophet was a homicidal maniac with a penchant for beheading hundreds of people and killing any male infidel who had pubic hair. The reason there are no moderate Islamists protesting these things is because if they are a true believer of Islam they must accept jihad by the sword as it is indeed commanded by the word of god. Islam cannot be negotiated with it must be defeated. It cannot be reformed or changed it must be eradicated. You cannot reform the perfect word of god, and this is the basic tenet of Islam and the sole reason for the existence of the religion itself. You cannot reform perfection. Either Muslims will have to accept the fact that the Qu'ran is not the word of God and somehow salvage their religion... if you can call it that or they will face extinction or we will all slowly become a muslim world.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We have video and photographic evidence (and some wonderful audio) of Muslim extremists teaching their children to slaughter people...chanting their love for Allah while the slowly behead living human beings. Then they all whoop and dance and exalt in their glorious cause. Now...others can fool themselves into believing you can negotiate with sick ****ing twists like that...but all it does is strengthen them. No excuses. No tolerance. There is one answer for them...eliminate them.
    Mass exterminations. Why didn't I think of that? That's what it needs. How many do you think will be necessary, Vance? 10,000? 100,000? Or how about a billion-and-a-half? Your mate Hafez says there's no distinction between extremist Moslems and all practicing Moslems, so why not err on the side of caution and kill 'em all?
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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Mass exterminations. Why didn't I think of that? That's what it needs. How many do you think will be necessary, Vance? 10,000? 100,000? Or how about a billion-and-a-half? Your mate Hafez says there's no distinction between extremist Moslems and all practicing Moslems, so why not err on the side of caution and kill 'em all?
    I have an assignment for you. Go out and find a "moderate" muslim and ask him if the Qu'ran is the absolute word of god. Then come back here and tell me what he said. You MAY find muslims who are in denial about the actual tenets of his or her religion and actually practice out of tradition and ergo the less then humanistic aspects of Islam, but these muslims are few and far in between and hence are scared to speak out for fear of being labeled an apostate and rightfully so. I have lived in Lebanon for years and MANY MANY christians didn't leave because we wanted to, we left because Islam had taken over and through its dominant stance made life VERY difficult. I was scared for my life countless times just going to school. These people are not your friends in fact the Qu'ran says not to befriend christians and jews. as follows

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

    Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly."

    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.

    Qur'an (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates "slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them").

    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

    Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

    Qur'an (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." Those who do not believe in Muhammad are but fuel for the fire of Hell (also 66:6, 2:24. 21:98).

    Qur'an (7:44) - "The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers" Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured.

    Qur'an (1:5-7) - "Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray" This is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to repeat each day. "Those who earn Thine anger" specifically refers to Jews and "those who go astray" refers to Christians.


    I am not a hateful person, but I have lived in a hateful culture an Islamic culture. I am speaking from my heart and from 20 years of experience and yet you do not heed my words. Instead you label me as bigoted or ignorant as to the true nature of Islam yet you have never lived in an Islamic society and seen first hand the cruelties perpetuated by holy men. Nor have you seen passive muslims go about their day as their very friends are sentenced to death for adultery. The world is too small for Islam and it harbors no sanctuary for none but Allah.
    Last edited by hafez; 09-08-10 at 01:29 PM.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Mass exterminations. Why didn't I think of that? That's what it needs. How many do you think will be necessary, Vance? 10,000? 100,000? Or how about a billion-and-a-half? Your mate Hafez says there's no distinction between extremist Moslems and all practicing Moslems, so why not err on the side of caution and kill 'em all?
    You may note (nah...probably wont) but my original post on the subject stated that the reason we have so many radicals is that MUSLIMS are silent and do nothing about the radicals. I believe EVERYONE...including Muslims need to actively and aggressively stand againts them...and you bet...if it takes 100k...so be it. Are you REALLY so naive as to believe you can peacefully coexist with extreme fundamentalist terrorists that bathe themselves in blood in the name of Allah and the glorious cause of Jihad? Good luck with that. I can post some videos that will help you get a feel for who you want to be reasoned and rational with if you would like.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Let me open with this disclaimer. I do NOT condone what this church in Florida plans to do. I think it is intolerant, and inciting while American lives are in direct contact danger in the ME.

    But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.


    j-mac
    I think it could be filed under performing arts. Those that burn flags, are hostile to Christianity... this is an opportunity for them to broaden their repertoire.

    They can go where Mapplethorpe didn't tread. They can thank this Rev. for breaking the ice (and putting his life on the line... because you know someone nuttier than he will be out to off him).

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    I have an assignment for you. Go out and find a "moderate" muslim and ask him if the Qu'ran is the absolute word of god. Then come back here and tell me what he said. You MAY find muslims who are in denial about the actual tenets of his or her religion and actually practice out of tradition and ergo the less then humanistic aspects of Islam, but these muslims are few and far in between and hence are scared to speak out for fear of being labeled an apostate and rightfully so. I have lived in Lebanon for years and MANY MANY christians didn't leave because we wanted to, we left because Islam had taken over and through its dominant stance made life VERY difficult. I was scared for my life countless times just going to school. These people are not your friends in fact the Qu'ran says not to befriend christians and jews. as follows

    Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

    Qur'an (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

    Qur'an (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." This last part means that the Muslim is allowed to feign friendship if it is of benefit. Renowned scholar Ibn Kathir states that "believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly."

    Qur'an (3:118) - "O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people, they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand." This verse not only warns Muslims not to take non-Muslims as friends, but it establishes the deep-seated paranoia that the rest of the world is out to get them.

    Qur'an (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers" Even family members are not to be taken as friends if they do not accept Islam. (This is the mildest interpretation of this verse from the 9th Sura, which also advocates "slaying the unbeliever wherever ye find them").

    Qur'an (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."

    Qur'an (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."

    Qur'an (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." Those who do not believe in Muhammad are but fuel for the fire of Hell (also 66:6, 2:24. 21:98).

    Qur'an (7:44) - "The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire: "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true: Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them: "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers" Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured.

    Qur'an (1:5-7) - "Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray" This is a prayer that Muslims are supposed to repeat each day. "Those who earn Thine anger" specifically refers to Jews and "those who go astray" refers to Christians.


    I am not a hateful person, but I have lived in a hateful culture an Islamic culture. I am speaking from my heart and from 20 years of experience and yet you do not heed my words. Instead you label me as bigoted or ignorant as to the true nature of Islam yet you have never lived in an Islamic society and seen first hand the cruelties perpetuated by holy men. Nor have you seen passive muslims go about their day as their very friends are sentenced to death for adultery. The world is too small for Islam and it harbors no sanctuary for none but Allah.
    Hafez... isn't it odd how the religion of hate, murder, jihad, mutilation and of course women's rights... is defended... yet Christianity is pissed and crapped on by many of the same people?

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You may note (nah...probably wont) but my original post on the subject stated that the reason we have so many radicals is that MUSLIMS are silent and do nothing about the radicals. I believe EVERYONE...including Muslims need to actively and aggressively stand againts them...and you bet...if it takes 100k...so be it. Are you REALLY so naive as to believe you can peacefully coexist with extreme fundamentalist terrorists that bathe themselves in blood in the name of Allah and the glorious cause of Jihad? Good luck with that. I can post some videos that will help you get a feel for who you want to be reasoned and rational with if you would like.
    Okay, we'll stick with your 100,000 murders.
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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yeah, I suppose religious fanatics being unable to tolerate eachother's different beliefs is nothing new.

    It aint me, that's for damn sure. No matter how much I don't agree with their teachings and law, etc - I won't be a brat about like that.
    The threats aren't just external though. They are also internal. Religious civil war is afflicting not only Islam but also Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism to their own degrees. It's a conflict between those in every faith who promote a punitive, disciplinary deity and those who worship a merciful, loving god. A global transition is under way from believer to the enforcer. Because of the comprehensive failure of the Middle East to compete in the modern era, their internal religious disagreementsare immediately evident. But apart fromt the obvious Muslim-on-Muslim, we are seeing the same battles, if in lesss violent forms, in the U.S., Africa, Latin America, India, and wherever faith is strong. Buddhist monks are engaging in violent protests. Hindus level mosques. Extremists are now on both sidesof the Isreali-Palestinian struggle. American Christians seek to legislate the behavior of fellowcitizens like never before.

    The surest indicator of a religion in crisis is an expanding list of things forbidden. Virtually all religions are doing this. Globalization and the Internet threaten traditions and religious fundamentals. Another indicator of a religion in crisis is the ease for which a mass of people transform god to a real estate manager. "Holy Land" or divine structure has been a case for war for a very long time, but in our age of nuclear power and mass televised paranoia, these wars in Africa through south Asia are coming to a head. God hasn't stajked any property claims in the U.S. and for that we should be greatful. And of course a third indicator that always rips religion apart is when the fanatics and hard core traditionalists seek to concrete a woman's role because this is the last bit of power left for old men to hold on to.

    It is so very easy for us to look at the Middle East and see Islam in turmoil in Sudan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc. We see the twisted laws and the slaughter between tribes with each professing the "proper" vision of god. But here in the USA we also see Christian fanatics desecrating the funerals of our fallen servicemen. We see plans for book burnings. In the mean time, another streak of Christianity scoffs at them and hates on them for desecrating the religion and making them all look bad. In the end, all will develop a measure of hate for each other and all will seek to defend their notion of Christianity. Is this not what has occurred within Islam? Buddhist Monks criticize those Buddhist monks who take a more active role in protests. Many Hindus in India are being chastized for their developing fanaticism to strike back on the Muslims in their midsts and eventually other Hindu will be forced to address them ifonly to preserve a sense of peace within the Hindu religion.

    This is happening all over. Its all internal. And it facilitates wars between the religions. It is always the Palestinian fanatic that destroys peace talks and encourages continual bloodshed between two peoples. It is always the Muslim fanatic in Pakistan that keeps friction between two entire peoples. Hell, even World War I kicked off with a single fanatic's display of violence. The vast majority of everybody else are always forced to choose a side. And with every religion facing some sort of crisis' in this modern era, there will be plenty of fanatics to start bigger problems between entire civilizations.

    Who knows what a bunch of book burners in this church will kick off for the rest of us.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-08-10 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Okay, we'll stick with your 100,000 murders.
    If thats what it takes who gives a damn about the number? Hell...if there are 2 million muslim extremists slaughtering innocent men women and children in the name of allah, then they all need to die and you are naive if you think you can sit donw and reason and negotiate with them. but hey...Im all for a fun show...i want you to PLEASE be up for the challenge. Go try it. Prove me wrong. Just dont lead your love and understanding crusade from the safety of your home or from behind your keyboard. Go where they live...tell them they are wrong...and they should love and accept everyone and that killing in the name of Allah is wrong...and women shouldnt be slaughtered for adultery or for teaching girls over the age of seven to read...or that homosexuality is GOOD and they should treat them with love and respect...and that its just plain wrong to kill people for insulting Muhammed or the Quran. take a video crew with you...just so we can all see how it worked out.

    You might want to take a little video journey of the people you want to reason with...VERY graphic...and not recommended...but...just say the word...I'll send you the links.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 09-08-10 at 02:05 PM.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    You know, Christianity and Judaism say to do some pretty crazy, sometimes violent things. Yet their followers treat their religions in a moderate fashion and put it in a modern context by NOT DOING THOSE THINGS. Somehow, American conservatives have gotten the impression that Muslims are incapable of doing the same. It's pretty amusing.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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