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Thread: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You know, Christianity and Judaism say to do some pretty crazy, sometimes violent things. Yet their followers treat their religions in a moderate fashion and put it in a modern context by NOT DOING THOSE THINGS. Somehow, American conservatives have gotten the impression that Muslims are incapable of doing the same. It's pretty amusing.
    Its not amazing because you are thinking like a western liberal apologist. Please tell me how exactly a muslim is to interpret the so called exact word of god whihc is the foundation for their religion? Christianity and judaism never proclaim that their books contain the exact word of god and hence are capable of making moral choices in regards to issues. Islam does not grant this luxury and hence we have ignorant people like yourself assuming all religions are the same somehow know that muslims will just sit there and be told their book is not the word of god verbatim.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Mass exterminations. Why didn't I think of that? That's what it needs. How many do you think will be necessary, Vance? 10,000? 100,000? Or how about a billion-and-a-half? Your mate Hafez says there's no distinction between extremist Moslems and all practicing Moslems, so why not err on the side of caution and kill 'em all?
    Well, nobody really has to lift a finger. Al-Queda and their kind kill far more fellow Muslims than anybody else as a matter of religious zeal. Muslims in Jordan and Lebanon and Syria have slaughtered far more Palesitnians than Israelis have done in 60 years fo warfare. Sunni Arabs performed genocide upon non-Arab Muslims in Sudan. The Muslim tribes managed to slaughter countless tens of thousands of their own in Iraq. As long as extremist Muslims continue to run the show in the Middle East, all other practicing Muslims in the region seem to be mere sheep.

    You are criticizing VanceMack for something he didn't state. He is addressing the twisted irredeemable souls who are beyond seing the light. You see, in order to negotiate with hardened religious fanatics who are bent on serving their vision of God, you must convert them to see God differently than they do. Converting the non-religious is far more simpler than attemtping to alter a religious man's beliefs. Though he may not realize this, he is speaking on the differnece between an apocalytpic terrorist and a practical terrorist. One you can reason with. One you must kill.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You know, Christianity and Judaism say to do some pretty crazy, sometimes violent things. Yet their followers treat their religions in a moderate fashion and put it in a modern context by NOT DOING THOSE THINGS. Somehow, American conservatives have gotten the impression that Muslims are incapable of doing the same. It's pretty amusing.
    You state "somehow" as if history is not written for all to see. You are in the dark and defaulting to guessing...

    Foundamentalism exists in all religions. This is where deep seated traditions are based and from where radicalism and eventually extremisms gets manifested. Religion outside of the Middle East has managed to defeat their versions of foundamentalism. Islam, especially in the Middle East, has not. Foundamentalism has largely hung on through the centuries. Arabs banning the only mobile printing press in the 16th century ensured the absence of the free flow of information and killed general creativity and free expression for centuries. Arabs also had already banned itjihad, which made the free interpretation of the Qu'ran illegal unless you were designated in one of the schools of thought and earned the right. During the 17th century Arabs shut down the only scientific observatory in Istanbul, which enforced the theme that outside contributions had nothing for the Islamic world. And when the Ottoman caliphate tried to modernize the culture in order to develop in order to compete with the rising west inthe 19th century. Abolishing slavery, banning the veil, and more equal gender rights were among these social changes. Sunni Arabs called these things an offense to Allah and managed to pressure the caliphate into not persuing them out of fear of being labeled an infidel.

    What do these type things matter? Currently, Sunni Islam makes up 90 percent of Islam. Arab colonialism blew out of the Arabian desert early and consumed empires and civilizations for centuries. For centuries it was the Sunni Arab that clung to foundamentalism and insisted that others stay true, especially after losing the caliphate to outsiders like the Ottomans. And today the House of Saud builds thousands of schools and mosques every year outside of the Middle East to ensure that loyalty to Sunni Islam remains premier.

    Islam is capable of change. But its history shows that foundamentalism has a firm grasp making it harder than other religions. Thanks to philisophical thinkers, the mobil printing press, a culture of evolving social toleration, and individual liberties, Christianity and Judaism has been allowed the bold transitions needed to thwart foundamentalism. Protestants made it possible to get to heaven without Catholicism's rituals. Christian women marched for equal rights. Christian scientists have been labeled the "father of genetics" and the "father of modern day science." Despite people's thoughts that Christianity is dooming our civilization, it was Christianity's quest to breakthrough bounderies and explore the meaning of God's creations that broke foundamentalism whenever it creeped up. Where would Christianity be without the reformations? Where's Islam's reformations? All the tools needed for anIslamic reformation were banned or abolished throughoutits history by Arabs in order to preserve foundamentalsim. Never in Islam's history has there ever been an organized movement for religious change. Always, they gravitate towards a want for social change but are denied it because others use the religion to preserve.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-08-10 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But I would like to delve beyond the usual argument here, and discuss why it is ok, seemingly, for members of Islam to constantly desecrate things like the American Flag, and burn churches and bibles over there, while here it raises nary a story, but have one whacked church here threaten to burn a Koran, and all hell breaks loose in the press, and on the ground there.
    Simple:
    It's OK for people to piss off Americans, but its NOT OK for Americans to piss off anyone else.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Simple:
    It's OK for people to piss off Americans, but its NOT OK for Americans to piss off anyone else.
    Please, have some national esteem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Simple:
    It's OK for people to piss off Americans, but its NOT OK for Americans to piss off anyone else.
    Im not so much concerned about being pissed off...been there...not overly impressed with impotent dsiplays like the one he will be engaging in. I AM concerned that this asshole of a 'preacher' will make my son a greater target to some extremist scumbag than he already is as one of Obamas 50,000 trip-wires left in Iraq.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    Christianity and judaism never proclaim that their books contain the exact word of god and hence are capable of making moral choices in regards to issues.
    Actually, yeah they do.

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." Christian fundamentalists believe that the bible is the literal word of God, and that every word is "god-breathed."

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    First and foremost. There is no such thing as radical Islam, there is only Islam. Islam is VERY different from western Christianity. To be a follower of Islam you MUST believe that the Qu'ran is the absolute word of god. Every verse and Surah in the book is equally valid and let me tell you there are ALOT more violent verses then there are peaceful verses. In fact Islam is the ONLY, let me repeat.. the ONLY religion whose prophet was a homicidal maniac with a penchant for beheading hundreds of people and killing any male infidel who had pubic hair.
    No offense intended, but yhwh/elohim is a right bastard who killed people left and right in the old testament, and many Christians believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, and completely inerrant. It's clear that you don't know enough about Christianity to discuss it adequately.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by hafez View Post
    In fact Islam is the ONLY, let me repeat.. the ONLY religion whose prophet was a homicidal maniac with a penchant for beheading hundreds of people and killing any male infidel who had pubic hair.
    Whew! I'm safe.

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    Re: Afghans protest U.S. church's plans to torch Koran

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You know, Christianity and Judaism say to do some pretty crazy, sometimes violent things. Yet their followers treat their religions in a moderate fashion and put it in a modern context by NOT DOING THOSE THINGS. Somehow, American conservatives have gotten the impression that Muslims are incapable of doing the same. It's pretty amusing.
    When is the last time someone killed hundreds of school children in the name of Christianity? When was the last time someone crashed an airliner into a building full of people in the name of Christianity?

    What is going on in this world in the name of Islam goes beyond just a few bad apples. There IS a jihad on. There IS a war waged by Islam against everyone else. You CANNOT deny that and you CANNOT justify it.

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