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Thread: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

  1. #321
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    As of yet, you have failed to provide one.
    Ths is just dishonest. If you can't do better than that, youre just wasting my time.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    One set of people is being treated differently here...
    No... all are under the same restrictions and therefore all all being treated the same. As such., there is no EP issue.
    You'd be correct if that privilege were restricted from a portion of the citizenry entirely. Since it is not, there is no violation.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No. You'd be correct if that privilege were restricted from a portion of the citizenry entirely. Since it is not, there is no violation.
    Ah. So the states CAN reduce or elimate a privilge so long as the reduction/elimination applies to everyone.
    How, then, does the wholesale repeal of the legal privilege of marriage violate the 14th amendment.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ths is just dishonest. If you can't do better than that, youre just wasting my time.
    it's unfortunate that you view debate on the issue as a waste of your time. Perhaps next time you defend this position, relevant examples would help. Unfortunately, I haven't seen you provide any that have not stood up to scrutiny.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    it's unfortunate that you view debate on the issue as a waste of your time.
    Its a shame that you have chosen to be dishonest, rather than admit someone else was right.

  6. #326
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No... all are under the same restrictions and therefore all all being treated the same. As such., there is no EP issue.
    You'd be correct if that privilege were restricted from a portion of the citizenry entirely. Since it is not, there is no violation.
    Sure there's discrimination. But don't take my word for it; after all, i'm not one of the lawyers that argued (and won) the case in a court of law based on such a defense. I'm simply a messageboard poster repeating their defense to you. If you think you have the secret to defeating their case in court, i'm sure there are a number of pro-prop 8 appeals groups that would gladly love to chat with you on the issue. Good luck!

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Sure there's discrimination.
    Show this to be true. Good luck.

  8. #328
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its a shame that you have chosen to be dishonest, rather than admit someone else was right.
    No, if you were right i'd admit it. I realize you have a different opinion, but it hasn't stood up to scrutiny. What is it you expect from the debate? Are you even looking for debate, for that matter? Or are you more interested in declaring a position, having it refuted, and then hope the issue just dies?

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Show this to be true. Good luck.
    There's no need. The lawyers arguing the case have already done so. And to be honest, I don't think you'd accept such an argument, anyway, would you? I think it would be nice if everyone had no issue with gay marriage, but again, your opinion is your own, and I respect it.

  10. #330
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    You're still missing the problem. You are arguing that sexuality somehow, magically, nullifies the 14th Amendment in this argument. When pressed on the issue, you become nebulous. You are clinging to the same debate, even though that debate has been addressed and refuted. Again, I don't mean to belittle you, but i'm not sure how much clearer I can be. What would it take to get you to realize that the argument you're putting forth is inconsistent with your argument against equal protection? There is just a huge disconnect here, and unfortunately you're still clinging to the same defense even though it's been addressed already.
    Where did I say anything about the 14th Amendment being "nullified"? Point me to the post. Show me my words where I said anything remotely similar to that. You are continually arguing against something I never said, mostly, I think, because you don't actually understand what I did say.

    In fact, my argument rests very squarely on the 14th Amendment AND the jurisprudence which surrounds it, and the tests which have been developed over time to analyze whether or not a law runds afoul of the equal protection clause. If you were familiar with any of that and how to argue equal protection, you might actually know that. (I even explained the entire reasoning process in detail, and in simple, layman's language.)

    But you don't get that. Instead, you seem to think I'm arguing that the 14th amendment is somehow "nullified" -- which is asinine, utterly and completely. If you have to make things up, how can you be right?


    You're not being very academic here. I read what you wrote over and over, but it just doesn't add up.
    That's simply because you haven't understood a word I've written.


    I have no idea why you keep dismissing the equal protection argument and keep injecting your sexuality defense.
    I made an equal protection argument, and I in no way "injected" any "defense." Nothing I said has anything to do with "defense." I have nothing to "defend." This is only further evidence that you simply don't understand what the conversation is even about.

    It's like you are stuck on that point despite the fact it's been addressed and refuted. From here, this is where you _should_ read the argument I put forth and say, "you know, Singularity already addressed this, and it's been refuted. Let me try to explain another possible defense against the equal protection clause".
    Except that you didn't. All you did was say "you think it nullifies the 14th Amendment. It doesn't." Which, of course, is simply stupid because I never said that, and if I had, your declaring it so wouldn't cut it anyway.

    Again, I don't know why you can't seem to get past that.
    Because you haven't addressed it effectively yet.


    The only thing I can tell you to do is maybe leave out the term 'sexuality' from your next defense, in the hopes that you eventually understand that we are past that already. I mean it's been addressed an umpteenth amount of times. Is there anything that I can do to help you to move forward here? We just keep going back to you presenting the same argument, me addressing it and refuting it, and you repeating the same argument.
    And saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it so.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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