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Thread: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

  1. #311
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Everyone is denied marriage in exactly the same way - and so, there's no discrimination.
    No discrimination, no EP issue.
    Except that there is discrimination, and it is an EP issue. That's why it was argued in a court of law (and won) based on EP.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The most obvious: The legislative reduction of social benefit payements, such as SocSec, Pell Grants, food stamps, etc. Raising the age of retirement necessary to gain those SocSec payments, too.
    Of course, these reductions need not be legislative - they can be regulatory as well.
    And yet, none of those privileges exclude anyone unfairly. You can still get SocSec, food stamps, Pell Grants, if you are a citizen. Marriage, on the other hand, does exclude a group of people unfairly. That's why the case as argued and won in a court of law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Unfairly"? That's subjective and irrelevant. The privilege I have in OH is denied by he state of IL by virtue of IL not having a shall-issue CCW. According to you, this vioplates the 14th.
    You got that right. The state of Illinois, by denying you a CCW, is most definitely in violation of the 14th Amendment. Not only that, it's in violation of the 2nd Amendment (that's my opinion, of course. You don't have to agree). And like homosexual marriage, this should be resolved in a court of law if the legislature refuses to acknowlege it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    "Irrelevant -- the fact that -I- am not afforded the same privileges in IL that I am in OH means that, according to you, IL has violated the 14th amendment.
    Again, yes. By not being able to legally have a CCW permit in Illinois, they are in direct violation of the 14th Amendment, and imho, the 2nd - like I said earlier. From what I understand, Illinois is battling this, right? They should. It's Unconstitutional.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    I agree there is discrimination. It's the unfairly Part we disagree on.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    And yet, none of those privileges exclude anyone unfairly.
    All of them reduce a benefit granted by the state. As you said, this violates the 14th.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Except that there is discrimination, and it is an EP issue. That's why it was argued in a court of law (and won) based on EP.
    If everyone is under the same setof restrictions, there can be no discrimination.
    Discrimination requires that one set of people is treated differently than another. That's NOT the case.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No, you put forth an example about minors...
    -Any- example proves my point.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In interracial marriage bans? A white person can marry a white person but a black person can't and a black person can marry a black person but a white person can't.
    Everyone can marry inside their race. No one can marry outside. Each rule applies to everyone equally. Where's the discrimination?

    In same sex marriage bans? A man can marry a woman but a woman can't, and a woman can marry a man but a man can't.
    Everyone can marry the opposite sex. No one can marry the same sex. Each rule applies to everyone equally. Where's the discrimination?




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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    All of them reduce a benefit granted by the state. As you said, this violates the 14th.
    No. You'd be correct if that privilege were restricted from a portion of the citizenry entirely. Since it is not, there is no violation.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If everyone is under the same setof restrictions, there can be no discrimination.
    Discrimination requires that one set of people is treated differently than another. That's NOT the case.
    One set of people is being treated differently here, and under the 14th Amendment, that's Unconstitutional.
    Last edited by Singularity; 09-10-10 at 09:40 PM.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    -Any- example proves my point.
    As of yet, you have failed to provide one.

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