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Thread: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    When you sign a contract, if someone amends that contract... it's void.

    And the Current CA Constitution has been ruled unconstitutional -- They're American's first.
    "When I joined the military and swore to defend the country as directed, we were at peace. Now the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor and they're telling me I have to go fight at war. We weren't at war when I signed my contract, so that means I get to go home, right?"
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    "When I joined the military and swore to defend the country as directed, we were at peace. Now the Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor and they're telling me I have to go fight at war. We weren't at war when I signed my contract, so that means I get to go home, right?"
    I think that part about going to war is already in the contract even during peace time.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You could make the argument, but the counter-argument is that until the legal avenues have been exhausted, the (federal) constitutionality is still very much an open question. One district court isn't enough.

    But it's certainly a stronger argument than "they don't have to defend it because it wasn't in the constitution when they took their oaths."
    Let me ask another, and the part that really makes no sense to me out of this:

    What is the advantage to the prop 8 backers to have some one who disagrees with them on their team so to speak for the trial? It seems to my point of view as a legal outsider, that it would not be in their interest to force help from people who don't want to help if you follow what I am saying. Since it makes no sense from that standpoint, I would assume that there has to be some benefit from a legal standpoint to force them to defend it?
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think that part about going to war is already in the contract even during peace time.
    The part about upholding the CA constitution was already in the oath. Hazlnut is trying to argue that because these people don't like this particular implementation of the constitution, they don't have to defend it. That's like saying that because you don't like a particular implementation of military force, you don't have to follow orders.
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Let me ask another, and the part that really makes no sense to me out of this:

    What is the advantage to the prop 8 backers to have some one who disagrees with them on their team so to speak for the trial? It seems to my point of view as a legal outsider, that it would not be in their interest to force help from people who don't want to help if you follow what I am saying. Since it makes no sense from that standpoint, I would assume that there has to be some benefit from a legal standpoint to force them to defend it?
    There's some uncertainty about whether the prop 8 backers would have standing to appeal the suit. If the state were forced to bring the appeal, it would ensure that the case moved on.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's some uncertainty about whether the prop 8 backers would have standing to appeal the suit. If the state were forced to bring the appeal, it would ensure that the case moved on.
    OK, yeah, I knew that. Duh, sorry, had a brain fart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I think that part about going to war is already in the contract even during peace time.
    As is the process for amending a constitution.
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    The California Constitution hadn't been amended when they swore to defend it.

    They could say - "I didn't swear to defend that homophobic, misguided thing..."

    Can you say Loophole?
    No, they swore to defend that Constitution knowing full well that it can be amended while they're in office.

    If they decide a new clause is indefensible, their only honorable choice is to resign.

    Since they'e politicians, and hence entirely without honor, they won't resign.

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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The article says the federal appeals court will hear the case in December.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    There's some uncertainty about whether the prop 8 backers would have standing to appeal the suit. If the state were forced to bring the appeal, it would ensure that the case moved on.
    Exactly; if the state doesn't appeal the ruling then it may turn out that no one else has standing to move this decision further in the court system. Were that to be the outcome both sides in the case would be foiled to some extent, but, at least, California would once again provide liberty and justice for all.

    Excerpted from “How 1997 ruling might thwart Prop. 8 appeal” By Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer, San Francisco Chronicle, August 18, 2010
    The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, which will hear arguments in December on a federal judge's ruling that overturned Proposition 8, has asked both sides to address the question of whether the campaign committee for the November 2008 initiative has legal standing - the right to represent the state's interests in upholding one of its laws.
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    Re: Court won't force state to defend Prop. 8

    If I were against gay marriage, I would do everything in my power to keep this from going to the Supreme Court, because it's pretty much a guarantee that Prop 8 would be struck down given the nature of this case. Literally, the 14th Amendment states:

    "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".

    There is no way to twist the meaning of that section. No state can enforce any law which abridges the privileges of U.S citizens, and since most gay marriage opponents believe marriage to be a privilege and not a right, then there you have it.

    Seems pretty open and shut to me.

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