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Thread: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

  1. #31
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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    A well-known Australian Muslim cleric has called for the beheading of Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders, a newspaper said on Friday. Wilders' Freedom Party scored the biggest gains in June 9 polls and is currently negotiating to form a new minority government with the Liberals and Christian Democrats. Polls show Wilders would win a new election if one were called now.

    Wilders demanded to know why he had learnt about the threat from the newspaper and not from Dutch authorities who are guarding him after a film and remarks he made angered Muslims around the world.


    Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician - Yahoo! News


    Color me shocked. It is pretty sad the Dutch authorities didn't bother to notify him of this threat.
    Just what are you shocked about, Tex? That the Dutch authorities didn't notify Mr. Wilder or who the threat was from?

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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    There is no harm in following a religion of it makes you a better person but calling for the beheading of someone with whom you disagree is quite another matter.

    This debate is not about Christianity but the Muslim call for the beheading of another human being. Whether Geert Wilders is a Christian, Buddhist or atheist matters not. It is barbaric and insane to behead other human beings for a difference of opinion. I'm sure the response would be the same, and should be the same, if any priest or pastor were to call for the beheading of Muslims.

    Trying to debate this as a religious issue only detracts from the what's really happening here..

  3. #33
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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Obligatory atheist response the the "Islam versus Christianity" pissing contest - take one!

    /cue Steve Pavlina

    If you devote serious time to the practice of either Christianity or Islam, then you're flushing much of your precious life down the drain with little or nothing to show for it. First, youíll waste a lot of time filling your head with useless nonsense. This includes reading some of the worst fiction ever written. Then there are various rules, laws, and practices to learn - all of which seek to keep you from doing fun things or living peacefully with folks who don't live their lives the same way you do. And then there are the actual stories. Seriously, if you have insomnia, try reading religious texts before bedtime. Youíll be asleep faster than you can say Mohammed. Why do you think hotels put Bibles next to the bed? Itís the greatest sedative known to man.

    I have to give props to the Scientologists for at least incorporating space aliens into their stories. Itís a shame Gene Roddenberry didnít formally invent his own religion; the Klingon afterlife sounds like a lot of fun.

    In addition to being a serious waste of time, religious practice can also be a huge waste of money. For starters, when you donate to a major religion, you support its expansion, which means youíre facilitating the enslavement of your fellow humans. That isnít very nice, now is it? If you feel the urge to donate money, give it to a real and honorable cause, not a fabricated one. Better yet, go outside and do something that really helps people. If you canít think of anything better, grab a can of paint and clean up some local graffiti.

    Your religious donations fund freeloaders who mooch off society but who generally provide little or no value in return. Sure there are some religious people who perform valuable public services, but for the most part, it's all about gettin' more sheep. In addition, these freeloaders typically operate tax-free, meaning theyíre effectively subsidized by taxpayers. Thatís a great racket if youíre on the receiving side - not so great if youíre funding it, though.

    Religions frequently promote inbred social networks. Youíre encouraged to spend more time with people who share the same belief system while disengaging from those with incompatible beliefs. Sometimes this is done subtly; other times itís more obvious.

    If youíre one of the saved, blessed, or otherwise enlightened individuals who stumbled upon the one true belief system, then supposedly everyone else remains in the dark. Certain religions are overtly intolerant of outsiders, but to one degree or another, all major religions cast non-subscribers in a negative light. This helps to discourage members from abandoning the religion while still enabling them to proselytize. The main idea is to maintain social structures that reward loyalty and punish freedom of thought.

    This us-versus-them prejudice is totally incongruent with conscious living. Itís also downright moronic from a global perspective. But it remains a favored practice of those who pull the strings. When youíre taught to distrust other human beings, fear gets a foothold in your consciousness, and you become much easier to control.

    When you join a religion, your fellow mind-slaves will help to keep you in line, socially rewarding your continued obedience while punishing your disloyalty. Why do they do this? Itís what theyíve been conditioned to do. Tell your religious friends that youíre abandoning their religion because you want to think for yourself for a while, and watch the sparks fly. Suddenly youíve gone from best friend to evil demon. Thereís no greater threat to religious people than to profess your desire to think for yourself.

    There are better ways to enjoy a sense of community than joining a slavery club. Try making friends with conscious, free-thinking people for a change - people who are willing to connect with you regardless of how silly your beliefs are. You may find it intimidating at first, but itís quite refreshing once you get used to it.

    However, there is a bright side to being an acolyte to Christianity or Islam. By picking a mythology, you get to participate in the various "Christianity versus Islam" debates that spring up all over the interwebz. You won't solve a thing, but you'll get loads of satisfaction from tearing down their stupid belief system while simulataneously defending your own stupid belief system. Bonus points if you pick some line out of each other's holy guidebooks for the braindead and use it to show why their mythology sucks, and your mythology is like wiping your arse with French silk.
    When I asked myself that question, I went to the founder of my faith and the founder of Islam to see whether or not it is their disciples which have corrupted their message or whether the message was corrupt from the get-go. The history of Christ and Mohammed reflect vastly different philosophies and actions by the founders of these respective faiths. One, though guiltless, hung on a cross to save anyone who would claim Him Lord. The other, when his authority was challenged, started lopping off heads.

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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    When I asked myself that question, I went to the founder of my faith and the founder of Islam to see whether or not it is their disciples which have corrupted their message or whether the message was corrupt from the get-go. The history of Christ and Mohammed reflect vastly different philosophies and actions by the founders of these respective faiths. One, though guiltless, hung on a cross to save anyone who would claim Him Lord. The other, when his authority was challenged, started lopping off heads.
    The truth is that so-called religious authorities don’t know any more about spirituality than you do. However, they know how to manipulate your fear and uncertainty for their own benefit. How nice of you to let them.

    If you want to talk to God, then communicate directly instead of using third-party intermediaries. Surely God has no need of an interpreter.

  5. #35
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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This might be a valid argument if we were to see Muslims out on the streets protesting against this latest outrage, but we don't. It seems you are only guessing here and, because it seems you tend to be a sympathetic person anyway, are reading things into the situation that aren't necessarily there.

    Fred Phelps is terrible and an embarrassment to Christians everywhere. That's why they are out there protesting against Phelps along with every other decent person.
    You mean, like the thousands of Iranians who held candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11?

    Iran mourns America's dead

    I'll agree with you to a degree. Are more Muslims fundamentalist than are Christian? Yes. Are Muslims a larger threat to the lives and freedomes of gays than Christians? Worldwide, yes.

    Nonetheless, you're lumping Kareem Abdul Jabbar with Osama bin Laden with your worldview. You're lumping my friend Al (a Muslim who was at my commitment ceremony and when I lived in Indy, spent many evenings on my porch hanging out with us) with Hamas.

    It's simply not the case.

    The current stances that Americans are taking with regards to American Muslims is only providing fodder to those radical Muslims who dupe and miseducate their people that their problems are with Western values and not with despotic religious fanatics whose corruption keeps their people poor and uneducated.

    If we want to defeat terrorism, we seek out our Muslim neighbors who simply seek the American dream and we stand arm-in-arm with them and we say, "You can't divide us, despite your worst efforts."

    Americans protesting the construction of a mosque do damage to our reputation in the Muslim world. Christian Americans who stand by the religious freedom of their Muslim neighbor, despite disagreements provide the true image of America - which says that regardless of your religion, you are a welcome member of our society and our nation. Why do you think Hammas is committing acts of violence as Abbas sits down with the Israeli government? Because they know that symbols of reconciliation defeat their cause. What builds their cause are symbols of conceived Western destruction of their beliefs.

    I'm hoping to bring an arrested Iranian music group to Nashville next year to discuss how the Iranian regime represses artistic expression in that nation - arresting musicians, poets, painters, and filmmakers. Just because the Mullahs say they aren't Muslims doesn't make it so. They are Muslim. They represent a new form of Islam that rectifies their religion with modern sensibilities.

    If you lump them with the Mullahs they rebel against, then what do you gain?

    It is necessary of us to recognize and praise those Muslim voices who do speak out against miseducation, repression, and hate. They are out there. You do them no favors when you ignore their voices. Are they too quiet? Perhaps. But their fight is more dangerous than ours is. The only way to strengthen them is to stand beside them. Not accuse them of being the same thing as our enemies.

  6. #36
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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This debate is not about Christianity but (one Muslim's) call for the beheading of another human being.
    I've bolded the change I made to your statement to make it accurate.

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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    You mean, like the thousands of Iranians who held candlelight vigils for the victims of 9/11?
    No, I mean getting out in the streets and protesting against the call for the beheading of another human being. What does candlelight vigils have to do with a beheading???


    Nonetheless, you're lumping Kareem Abdul Jabbar with Osama bin Laden with your worldview. You're lumping my friend Al (a Muslim who was at my commitment ceremony and when I lived in Indy, spent many evenings on my porch hanging out with us) with Hamas.
    I am not. I am calling for everyone to speak out against this madness, not try and sugarcoat it with platitudes or having religious debates. Muslims are murdering innocent human beings all over the world and we should do all we can to stop it, and this includes your friend Al and Kareem Abdul Jabbar


    The current stances that Americans are taking with regards to American Muslims is only providing fodder to those radical Muslims who dupe and miseducate their people that their problems are with Western values and not with despotic religious fanatics whose corruption keeps their people poor and uneducated.
    Oh, so unless you make nicey nicey with Muslims, and dare not be critical, Muslims will kill us all,. Would that include your friend Al? This is treating them like children.

    i think its about time we take it as a given that we are always talking about radical Muslims, just like the subject of this thread. I believe its time we can cease saying that "Not all Muslims are terrorists". We know!! We really really know! But that fact is that there are Muslims who are terrorists, Muslims who sympathize with terrorists and those who support terrorists. And it is also a fact that we can often never really tell which is which.


    If we want to defeat terrorism, we seek out our Muslim neighbors who simply seek the American dream and we stand arm-in-arm with them and we say, "You can't divide us, despite your worst efforts."
    Is that part of your Mr. Multicult acceptance speech?

    Americans protesting the construction of a mosque do damage to our reputation in the Muslim world.
    Many Americans like yourself are certainly worried more about their reputation with Muslims than Muslims are worried about their reputation with Americans. Or anyone else for that matter, Why shoudl you care what Muslims think of Americans? Are you really that weak and frightened?

    Christian Americans who stand by the religious freedom of their Muslim neighbor, despite disagreements provide the true image of America - which says that regardless of your religion, you are a welcome member of our society and our nation. Why do you think Hammas is committing acts of violence as Abbas sits down with the Israeli government? Because they know that symbols of reconciliation defeat their cause. What builds their cause are symbols of conceived Western destruction of their beliefs.
    Osama bin laden said, quite correctly, that people wll always choose the strong horse. This is weak horse talk. Muslim leaders, the 'radicals', are not interested in locking arms with yoou and singing in the sunshine, and if Al told you otherwise he's kidding with you.

    I'm hoping to bring an arrested Iranian music group to Nashville next year to discuss how the Iranian regime represses artistic expression in that nation - arresting musicians, poets, painters, and filmmakers. Just because the Mullahs say they aren't Muslims doesn't make it so. They are Muslim. They represent a new form of Islam that rectifies their religion with modern sensibilities.

    If you lump them with the Mullahs they rebel against, then what do you gain?

    It is necessary of us to recognize and praise those Muslim voices who do speak out against miseducation, repression, and hate. They are out there. You do them no favors when you ignore their voices. Are they too quiet? Perhaps. But their fight is more dangerous than ours is. The only way to strengthen them is to stand beside them. Not accuse them of being the same thing as our enemies.

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    Re: Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I've bolded the change I made to your statement to make it accurate.
    That says "originally posted by Grant" but that is not what I originally posted.

    Is this sort of doctoring allowed on these boards?

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