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Thread: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    I thought it was a Conservative with his massive tax breaks, foolish trillion+ dollar war and not so conservative spending that really dug us in deep. Something I learned today, your typical conservative has a very short memory.
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Well, we already practice socialism to a degree. Social Security and welfare have existed for some time. Roosevelt's 2nd Bill of Rights would have gone a long way to keeping a more equal balance in America.
    Social Security and all other welfare entitlement programs are unconstitutional.

    And we've been practicing socialism for so long we have to start considering that the United States is expert at it, and it doesn't work.

    Socialism never works. It violates human nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But a 100% capitalism is heartless for a nation that has a long history of being otherwise.
    No, it's not.

    Anyone who wants to give to charity can give to charity. How heartless is that? It's more heartless to steal money from people who earn it to buy votes from the poor eagerly wanting to sell their votes. Not to mention that it's unconstitutional.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It's bad enough that our corporations (Wal-Mart, Nike, etc) screw over many workers abroad,
    Do they? Providing a job is "screwing people over"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    We need to be Americans first
    And socialists never.

    Socialism and the kleptocracy and slavery that goes with it are not compatible with the American ideal and they're not Constitutional, either.

    corporations second. Since around the 80s, we have reversed that.
    No. The fact of the corporation has been with this country since the first settlers arrived. The ability to incorporate is enshrined in the Constitution, under the First Amendment freedom to assemble and the Fourth Amendment freedom to own property,

    Washington caters to corporations long before it caters to Americans,
    Here's a novel idea:

    Go back to demanding the government in Washington be limited by the explicit bounds of the Constitution, and the government will then no longer have the power to run a catering business.

    We also have to consider the environment.
    Absolutely. First we need to criminally prosecute the people promoting the Global Warming Hoax, and start firing the crew on the EPA that have been causing so much trouble. Once our environment is cleared of these pollutants, we can see how the improvements work out.

    We are in a "Progress Trap." This is a term best explained using Easter Island.
    Ya think the US is going to deforest itself? Do you seriously believe the logging companies are going to cut down all the trees, when their business is selling tree products?

    Extremists who cite the unlikely aren't credible and pose a real threat to public safety.

    Eventually, one guy visited the last tree on that island and hacked it down.
    You know this for a fact? The movie Rapa Nui is a documentary? How certain are you that the people didn't protect the last tree until it died of old age? And, interestingly, Easter Island is too far from land for the indigenous forest to have been a remant cut off from the mainland by rising sea levels. No, the indigenous forest was also an immigrant forest, and it was only a matter of time before some chance event reseeded the island with trees of some sort.

    Another example of the "Progress Trap" is in Canada. I forget what the site is called, but it was a location where hunters thousands of years ago used to run hundreds of bison over a cliff. They had evolved their hunting abilities to the point where they figured out that they didn't even have to try. They could just herd hundreds of them off a cliff and pick a few out for dinner. Eventually, they killed out all the game like this. They knew that the herds were becoming harder and harder to find, yet they practiced this until starvation took them or they migrated to find food elsewhere.
    Just in case you missed it, but there were massive bison herds in North America until the middle of the 1800's. The indians never had a chance of exterminating THOSE megafauna. It took white men, white man rifles, and white man's horses, to almost make the bison extinct.

    Capitalism is a progress trap in today's civilization.
    Okay, we should only allow nations that were capitalist to remain capitalist. Fortunately for me, that means the United States should remain free. It's going to be rough on India, China, Ethiopia, Zaire, Cuba, and all the other places in the world ravaged by the evils of socialism, but hey, its not my problem what happens over there.

    We see the rain forests, the oceans, and ecosystems being destroyed exponentially year after year, yet we continue to "progress" and push as if we can't see an end. 100% capitalism is not good for the economy as a whole, people as a whole, and the environment as a whole. Right now we consume 130% of what the earth can produce a year. This is mostly all through capitalism and it is the very few in corporate offices who are getting rich. In the mean time the bison are runnning out and the Easter Island heads can't be moved as they once could.
    You got any clue what the word "exponentially" means? Want to know why the jungles in Brazil are being stripped?

    It's because NO ONE OWNS THEM.

    They're the "commons". And like all commons everywhere, no one owns them, so everyone seeks to maximize the immediate profit they can get from them before they're used up.

    It's what socialism is really good at, destruction.

    Japan can run around murdering whales for fake scientific reasearch because NO ONE OWNS the whales. There's no legal recourse anyone has to stop them. So now there's a popular TV show about terrorists engaging in piracy against Japanese ships in the Great Southern Ocean. What idiocy. Auction the damn whale pods to interested buyers, and sue poachers in international court when they're caught. Only licensed pod owners could sell whale product on the lawful market, and write the terms of the auction to ensure that the owners of the pod are stewards required to manage their property to increase it's numbers, something any sane capitalist would do as a matter of practical business sense. No rancher slaughters his herd in one season, or even so much that natural increases won't be able to keep him in business for the long term.

    The problem with the whales is that they're part of the commons.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I thought it was a Conservative with his massive tax breaks, foolish trillion+ dollar war and not so conservative spending that really dug us in deep. Something I learned today, your typical conservative has a very short memory.
    This economic problem started with Reagan, worked its way through Clinton and emerged with Bush. Without the Iraq war, this was still going to happen.

    This is not just a conservative or a liberal creation. They are both at guilt and trying to play one up against the other merely encourages the same foolish partisan garbage that makes coming to a solution impossible.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This economic problem started with Reagan, worked its way through Clinton and emerged with Bush. Without the Iraq war, this was still going to happen.

    This is not just a conservative or a liberal creation. They are both at guilt and trying to play one up against the other merely encourages the same foolish partisan garbage that makes coming to a solution impossible.
    That's right.

    Jimmy Carter never had to give a speech that was never later called his "Economic Malaise" speech. And since he never actually gave his Economic Malaise speech, it's not meaningful to say that Carter never actually used the phrase "Economic Malaise" in the speech he didn't give in which he told Americans there was nothing to do about the economy that wasn't deteroriating under his one and only single term presidency and that the Americans would just have to learn to lower their expectations about the future of their lives and their children's.

    All the economic problems started with Reagan. You're absolutely right.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    the putz on pennsylvania came out for 45 seconds this morning to assure us all we're heading in the right direction

    gosh, what must be his goal?
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Socialism never works. It violates human nature.
    The impractical vision of Marx was distorted and it manifested itself in the hands of Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Whenever dreamers such as Marx shove their utopian ideas of how to perfect humanity, they should be silenced. We can't kill the dreamer, but we can certainly kill the dream. Imperfect humans will always dissapoint the perfect "-ism." The Age of Ideology (1789-1991) is dead. It's this period's extreme sense of how to organize people that have violated human nature.

    But this doesn't mean that degree of this and that is harmful. Fascism and socialism slaughtered hundreds of millions of bodies. Capitalism is a bit more sly. There are no slaughtering grounds or genocidal numbers of corpses littering the landscape, but it has proven to be harmful unchecked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Do they? Providing a job is "screwing people over"?
    Look at it honestly. I would absolutely agree that localgovernments are ultimately responsible for their own. 600,000 Chinese die a year in sweat shops for American companies with no attention given to them by their own Chinese government. But it is our unchecked capitalist corporations that send jobs across the sea, leaving Americans jobless in order to get the next best thing to slavery (wages). If the average American troop is supposed to be an ambassador of our nation in foreign lands, what is our corporations supposed to be? Are they completely without responsibility? What's a soldier as compared to a multi-billion dollar industry that seeks to create sweat shops around the world for cheap labor?

    I hate our corporations as much as I hate our media. Both feel more towards being a global citizen than they do about being an American one. This is why the media screws us over repeatedly. This is why our corporations now cater to foreign workers. Neither have a sense of loyalty outside of what will make a buck. And you defend this? You are the ignorant suicide bomber the smarter Bin Laden seeks for his cause.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    And socialists never.

    Socialism and the kleptocracy and slavery that goes with it are not compatible with the American ideal and they're not Constitutional, either.
    This is not the Cold War anymore. The West, especially America, married democracy to capitalism while communists was married to socialism. Communism failed on a monumental level across the world in various cultures because it denied people the freedom to rise above another. Socialism maintained a sense of unfair equality. But this is 2010. The Berlin Wall came down 21 years ago. Democracy and capitalism prevailed. But pure capitalism is takling its toll on everything. The Scandinavian countries of Europe have struck a balance between capitalism and socialism while living in democracy (or republic). We just can't keep driving ourselves towards the global doom we all see and call it progress. Everything changes. The best empires in history were able to identify that and roll. Before us, the Romans and the Biritish went through many economic, religious, and government changes to continue its power. We have done the same. We have gone from being very happy as isolationalists to "world policemen" to what we are transitioning into today (though people haven't realized it yet). We got democracy right. We got the idea of capitalism right. But we have to marry capitalism to socialism in a way that pushes us forward without the trap. Time to evolve beyond the black and white. If we don't then we fall, which is eventually what the Romans did when they decided that no change was neccessary. The British, though not a global power on our level, continue to be strength because it continues to roll.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No. The fact of the corporation has been with this country since the first settlers arrived. The ability to incorporate is enshrined in the Constitution, under the First Amendment freedom to assemble and the Fourth Amendment freedom to own property,
    And we will crumble under a great vision that has been twisted. Just like the twist between Marx and Stalin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    Go back to demanding the government in Washington be limited by the explicit bounds of the Constitution, and the government will then no longer have the power to run a catering business.
    Well, it runs a catering business right now. It caters to the corporations. It caters to the oil companies that keep us moving. It caters to the money that gets them re-elected. It's disgusting. You aren't in charge. Wal-Mart and Exxon is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Ya think the US is going to deforest itself? Do you seriously believe the logging companies are going to cut down all the trees, when their business is selling tree products?
    Nope. I believe our current "Progress Trap" will have us cutting down the forests of foreign lands until we have to supply paper out of Yellow Stone National Park. And when our last tree is chopped down, we will simply perish like so many civilizations before us on a local level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You know this for a fact? The movie Rapa Nui is a documentary? How certain are you that the people didn't protect the last tree until it died of old age? And, interestingly, Easter Island is too far from land for the indigenous forest to have been a remant cut off from the mainland by rising sea levels. No, the indigenous forest was also an immigrant forest, and it was only a matter of time before some chance event reseeded the island with trees of some sort.
    More certain than you. The rocks were moved by trees. When the trees ran out, they began carving heads on the coasts. The could tell this by dating the stones. And eventually the island was made extinct of trees and human life because they moved off it or simply starved to death for lack of vegetation. I've noticed how people tend to accuse the scientists or thinkers as "radicals" or "extremists" while countering with a bunch of "accidents" and "by chances" or "fluke occurrence." In religious terms (as I am well versed) this is what the fanatic or extremists is only these "flukes" are explained by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post

    Just in case you missed it, but there were massive bison herds in North America until the middle of the 1800's. The indians never had a chance of exterminating THOSE megafauna. It took white men, white man rifles, and white man's horses, to almost make the bison extinct.
    You missed the point. Tghe herds I spoke of are recorded in northern Canada. But you assist in my point too by bringing up our territory. White men and their sense of progress slaughtered out the Bison even as they became well aware that it was becoming harder and harder to find the herds? This is another Progress Trap. The better they progressed their skills the harder it was to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Okay, we should only allow nations that were capitalist to remain capitalist. Fortunately for me, that means the United States should remain free. It's going to be rough on India, China, Ethiopia, Zaire, Cuba, and all the other places in the world ravaged by the evils of socialism, but hey, its not my problem what happens over there.
    You equate socialism to communism. This is a 20th century historical understanding as many do this. But this is not accurate. Neither is your idea that what "happens over there" doesn't matter to us. Our history proves that the health of foreign regions affects our security. We were isolationalists before Europeans sucked us out in to their world for two World Wars and then a Cold War. The oppressed and abused Middle East has facilitated hatred towards the West that goes back to European colonial days. Today we are the face of the West to many no matter what we do.

    India is a perfect example of this, since you brought it up. For a period after WWII it was a nation of problems. Immigration into Europe and Amertica was exponentially growing because they were escaping misery for a chance at something better. In the mean time, with the wealthiest, brightest and educated leaving India, the people left behind were having more and more difficulty dealing with India's problems. It wasn't until America jumped in in the 60s and jump started their agricultural programs and economical bases that India turned around. All of a sudden Indians began returning to their homeland. India began to prosper. And what is India today? Aside from being a source for our corporations to export jobs, it is a genuine contributer to international society. It is no longer a burden as it was.

    India is an example of how unhealthy regions abroad do affect us. The solution is simple. Give them a reason to stay at home and they will. Capitalism is raping their landscapes and they will seek a better land to prosper. And where do you think that is? Where has that always been?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    You got any clue what the word "exponentially" means? Want to know why the jungles in Brazil are being stripped?

    It's because NO ONE OWNS THEM.

    They're the "commons". And like all commons everywhere, no one owns them, so everyone seeks to maximize the immediate profit they can get from them before they're used up.
    Immediate profit is a capitalist term that destroys because in the end that which provided the immediate orgasm goes away. In the end they will be used up and what will your bank account show for it? I'm assuming you aren't a corporate suit ****ting on the rest of us. And "exponentially" means an increase at ever more increments. And when they are used up as you stated?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The problem with the whales is that they're part of the commons.
    And when there are no whales? Will the retarded still speak on the demand to hunt until extinction? It may have been good for the very few individuals in corporate offices, but what did it do for your bank account? ****. Yet you stroke away.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-03-10 at 07:16 PM.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    That's right.

    Jimmy Carter never had to give a speech that was never later called his "Economic Malaise" speech. And since he never actually gave his Economic Malaise speech, it's not meaningful to say that Carter never actually used the phrase "Economic Malaise" in the speech he didn't give in which he told Americans there was nothing to do about the economy that wasn't deteroriating under his one and only single term presidency and that the Americans would just have to learn to lower their expectations about the future of their lives and their children's.

    All the economic problems started with Reagan. You're absolutely right.
    So you wish to start it with Carter? Fine by me. I'm not the partisan slave you appear to be. Either way, both worthless parties are at fault. But consider this...

    - 20 years of Republican White House came after Carter.

    - 10 years of Democratic White House came after Carter.

    That's 30 years of Republican and Democratic BS gumming up the works, most of which was Republican. Still seeking to exonerate Republican hands? Instead of being a stooge for one of them, criticize both.
    Last edited by MSgt; 09-03-10 at 07:34 PM.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I thought it was a Conservative with his massive tax breaks, foolish trillion+ dollar war and not so conservative spending that really dug us in deep. Something I learned today, your typical conservative has a very short memory.
    Actually, that didn't have anything to do with it...LMAO!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    What he said ^^^


    Tim-
    Okay. Let's examine this historically:

    Reagan's recession: 7/81 to 11/82 - 16 months.

    Let's look at the unemployment rate under his first term:

    In February, 1981 the unemployment rate was 7.4%

    By this point in his term, the unemployment rate was 10.1%.

    At the end of the recession in November of 1982, unemployment was 10.8%.

    It would not be until September, 1984 that the unemployment rate returned to its original level, slightly lower at 7.3%. It wouldn't be until well into 1987 that the unemployment rate would return consistantly under 7%.

    So, Reagan's recovery took much longer than the present one and unemployment continued upward for quite some time, as opposed to the present recovery, where unemployment has at least stagnated.

    Let's look at Bush's 1st recession: 3/01 to 11/01 - 8 months.

    In February, 2001 Bush's unemployment rate was 4.2%.

    At the end of the recession, the unemployment rate was 5.5%.

    Post-recession, the unemployment rate would continue to slowly increase to 6.3%, peaking in June, 2003.

    So, in other words: under Reagan, and under Bush - unemployment continued RISING for nearly one full year at this point in their recoveries.

    In the present recession - which is considered by basically everyone to be the worst since the Depression - unemployment has stabilized and has already come down from its peak of 10.1% in October of last year.

    Do you denounce a single one of these facts? If so, how?

    In other words, the current recovery is actually ahead of both Reagan's and Bush's - and Bush's was by far the weakest of the three recessions.

    So, I guess I'm asking why you think Obama (whose recovery is actually ahead of both Reagan's and Bush's pace) is to blame (credit?), but Reagan and Bush were to credit (or blame?).

    I think the title of the article is pretty hyperbolic. But job growth always lags behind other factors in economic recovery. Perhaps you can find a recovery that went differently, but I'm not aware of one.

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    Re: Strongest jobs recovery in decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Hardly. As much as the Americans like to think that they're the only gem of purity and goodness in the world, and that every other country on the face of the earth ought to either grovel or stay out of America's way, the reality is that, in the year 2010, your nation, along with the rest of the world, has come a long way from 1991. America is once again just one power among many, and any rational man can tell you that, for all of the stories of interdependence between America and China, it's the EU and America that are the closest partners when it comes down to world relations. It'd be disastrous to America to see the EU breakup, and it'd be disastrous to the EU to see America breakup.

    Now, admittedly, I am English, and you're right in saying that the current trend is probably more favourable to our half of the partnership, whereas America's going through some rough times right now. But it'd be daft to alienate your most vital allies and partners because you're sore about losing your preeminent status.
    here's one american conservative who's hardly chauvinist

    i mean, i root for america, and all, but...

    rooting is for little girls

    i'm more like a buddhist, a kinda macho buddhist...

    anyway, i just observe, and my disposition to the soon-to-come and totally unavoidable u.s. collapse is---well, if we deserve it...

    it will come

    same as the eu, which has enacted some rather odd directions herself in the last decades, we've watched

    and of course, by nature, like phsyics, it is where it is

    UK budget deficit 'to surpass Greece's as worst in EU' | Business | The Guardian

    you were ahead of us, we're rapidly following, you're suddenly trying to swing around that leviathan

    the word is austerity

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