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Thread: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    I say, good for her. It shows a modicum of maturity that Americans are stepping up and finally telling other Americans that something they're doing is wrong -- I say bravo to Clinton, and I'm rather impressed.
    Actually, Le Marteau, the Arizona law mirrors the Federal law so it would have been more consistent had Hillary Clinton turned herself in as well, with perhaps making a citizen's arrest of President Obama.

    As a European you of course know little about America, its people, customs or laws, and that is evident in your post. I've come to expect that.
    Brewer's response, however, was much less mature. He essentially said, "Hey, you can't turn me in for human rights violations, I'm an American! I don't have to listen to that "international law" nonsense!"
    Again, you don't understand the issues involved nor what Governor Brewer, a woman in fact, "essentially" said.

    Americans have nothing positive to learn from Europeans.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    The problem with Arizona's new immigration law is not that it's anti-immigration -- that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be in a border-province where legal and illegal immigration is a problem. The problem with it is the arbitrary nature of the law -- a random stop by a bigoted patrolman with your last name being "Lopez", and you could be in a bureaucratic nightmare proving you're a legal resident -- if you're not deported outright.
    There have been no such cases submitted. None.

    And because the border aligns with Mexico it would be strange indeed if the guards went looking for Chinese or Nigerians, though apparently that's what they're expected to do. No profiling allowed.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Actually, Le Marteau, the Arizona law mirrors the Federal law so it would have been more consistent had Hillary Clinton turned herself in as well, with perhaps making a citizen's arrest of President Obama.

    As a European you of course know little about America, its people, customs or laws, and that is evident in your post. I've come to expect that.


    Again, you don't understand the issues involved nor what Governor Brewer, a woman in fact, "essentially" said.

    Americans have nothing positive to learn from Europeans.
    I've just looked up your federal law, and... You're flat-out wrong. I don't know why you spout bull**** when it can be corrected with a search as easy as "American Federal Immigration Laws", but, here it is:

    Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Also, as a European, I know plenty about America -- firstly because I lived there for a while, and visit relations regularly, and secondly because, contrariwise to what you may think, we've actually got a decent education system over here, and we know how to learn about a place externally -- something most Americans refuse to do. I can't tell you how many Americans I've met visiting France for the first time saying "Wait a second, this isn't right -- France is supposed to be a country filled with gay cowards! That's what FOX News tells me, and I'm too bloody lazy to use multiple collegiate sources!"


    I'll admit that you were right about Governor Brewer being a woman (I mistook "Jan" for a shortened "Jansen" as opposed to "Janice"), but your accuracy ends there.


    Your final sentence only proves your bigotry -- as I recall, Americans have learned just about everything from Europeans, being a part of Western society.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    I've just looked up your federal law, and... You're flat-out wrong. I don't know why you spout bull**** when it can be corrected with a search as easy as "American Federal Immigration Laws", but, here it is:

    Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You're going to have to do much better than that to show he's "flat-out wrong," 'coz, well, he isn't.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're going to have to do much better than that to show he's "flat-out wrong," 'coz, well, he isn't.
    Some excerpts that prove how wrong he is:

    "criticized the statute as a violation of the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution, which gives the federal government authority over the states in immigration matters and provides that only the federal government can enact and enforce immigration laws"

    "the Act violated federal law because the police and the city have no authority to perform immigration-related duties"

    "violates the federal Supremacy Clause by attempting to bypass federal immigration law;

    violates the Fourteenth Amendment and Equal Protection Clause rights of racial and national origin minorities by subjecting them to stops, detentions, and arrests based on their race or origin;

    violates the First Amendment rights of freedom of speech by exposing speakers to scrutiny based on their language or accent;

    violates the Fourth Amendment's prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures because it allows for warrantless searches in absence of probable cause;

    violates the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause by being impermissibly vague;

    and infringes on constitutional provisions that protect the right to travel without being stopped, questioned, or detained."

    Care for some more?

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Some excerpts that prove how wrong he is:

    "criticized the statute as a violation of the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution, which gives the federal government authority over the states in immigration matters and provides that only the federal government can enact and enforce immigration laws"

    "the Act violated federal law because the police and the city have no authority to perform immigration-related duties"

    "violates the federal Supremacy Clause by attempting to bypass federal immigration law;

    violates the Fourteenth Amendment and Equal Protection Clause rights of racial and national origin minorities by subjecting them to stops, detentions, and arrests based on their race or origin;

    violates the First Amendment rights of freedom of speech by exposing speakers to scrutiny based on their language or accent;

    violates the Fourth Amendment's prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures because it allows for warrantless searches in absence of probable cause;

    violates the Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause by being impermissibly vague;

    and infringes on constitutional provisions that protect the right to travel without being stopped, questioned, or detained."

    Care for some more?
    The Arizona law mirrors the federal law. What you are doing here is parroting what the Feds are saying over who has jurisdiction, which is quite another argument.

    Yes, I realize that Europeans had a great deal of input in the creation of the United States, and that generation is still revered in the US, but following WWII Europeans changed dramatically and are no longer allies to anyone, even to each other. And as a result of their long term anti Americanism you are quite right, I don't care for most of them very much at all.

    There are some brave souls there who will argue to defend what was once European values, the values that helped created the United States, but they are sadly disappearing. Your media has made fools out of too many of you. Sorry.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Well, if I didn't already have plenty of reasons to despise Hillary, I certainly do now. Another nail in her coffin - what a ****wad.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The Arizona law mirrors the federal law. What you are doing here is parroting what the Feds are saying over who has jurisdiction, which is quite another argument.

    Yes, I realize that Europeans had a great deal of input in the creation of the United States, and that generation is still revered in the US, but following WWII Europeans changed dramatically and are no longer allies to anyone, even to each other. And as a result of their long term anti Americanism you are quite right, I don't care for most of them very much at all.

    There are some brave souls there who will argue to defend what was once European values, the values that helped created the United States, but they are sadly disappearing. Your media has made fools out of too many of you. Sorry.
    I don't understand your logic -- the present era in European politics is the single most unified era since Charles V and the Holy Roman Empire five hundred years ago... Europe, under the European Union, is the largest and most powerful political and economic entity in the world, which consistently votes as a bloc on everything from currency reform to UN resolutions. You've pretty much made the mistatement of the year in claiming that Europeans are "no longer allies to anyone, even to eachother", because, as of the last fifty years, we've just entered the first real era of interdependence, peace and prosperity for about five hundred years.

    As for your final statement -- how do you mean? Would it not be a function of being European to espouse European ideals? What "European ideals" have we strayed from? The ones where we felt alright about conquering and enslaving the rest of the world? The Age of Empires is over -- we saw to that, too. Progress marches one. In fact, if there's one thing markedly European in nature, it's progress -- and we're still at the forefront of that.

    I don't understand what you're saying. You'd prefer for Europe to stop being a bastion of liberalism and progress and enlightenment, and instead turn into a backwater? Don't worry, America's already heading that way -- I think if you stay put where you are, you'll see all the reactionary regressionism you could ever want over the coming years.

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Well, if I didn't already have plenty of reasons to despise Hillary, I certainly do now. Another nail in her coffin - what a ****wad.
    I don't know how she can possibly recover from this politically.

    There was speculation that she might run against Obama in 2012 if his numbers continue to drop but this will probably dash any political ambitions she might have. I really cannot understand the reasoning behind this. I thought Bill would be too smart to let her do this but I suppose not. Maybe she was set up by Obama.

    Who really knows?

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    re: State Department Stands By Decision to Include Arizona in U.N. Human Rights Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    I don't understand your logic -- the present era in European politics is the single most unified era since Charles V and the Holy Roman Empire five hundred years ago... Europe, under the European Union, is the largest and most powerful political and economic entity in the world, which consistently votes as a bloc on everything from currency reform to UN resolutions. You've pretty much made the mistatement of the year in claiming that Europeans are "no longer allies to anyone, even to eachother", because, as of the last fifty years, we've just entered the first real era of interdependence, peace and prosperity for about five hundred years.

    As for your final statement -- how do you mean? Would it not be a function of being European to espouse European ideals? What "European ideals" have we strayed from? The ones where we felt alright about conquering and enslaving the rest of the world? The Age of Empires is over -- we saw to that, too. Progress marches one. In fact, if there's one thing markedly European in nature, it's progress -- and we're still at the forefront of that.

    I don't understand what you're saying. You'd prefer for Europe to stop being a bastion of liberalism and progress and enlightenment, and instead turn into a backwater? Don't worry, America's already heading that way -- I think if you stay put where you are, you'll see all the reactionary regressionism you could ever want over the coming years.
    I certainly wish Europe and its people the best of luck, Le Marteau, I wish you no harm, but I'll stick with my earlier assessment.

    Anyone who who uses a hammer and sickle as a symbol of who they are could only be a European, despite the devastation the people behind this symbol created. This symbol, despite what you might believe, is no a symbol for a "bastion of Liberalism". Fascism, Communism, Nazism, all originated there and the anti Americanism continues.

    I'll continue with my attitude toward Europeans and expect its deterioration to continue. You've said nothing to change any minds.

    I'm Canadian, by the way.

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