• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

TurtleDude said:
not always but if you play the odds the average IQ of any 10 Six figure earners pulled off the street is going to be about 30 points higher than any ten high school dropouts you round un in the soup kitchen or in the county jail
Click to expand...

Got any stats to prove that or did you just pull that out of our ass? :mrgreen:
 
TurtleDude said:
I love the tax and hike types who buy into the Buffet dishonesty

1) Buffet sets his salary way below any similarly situated executives to avoid taxes. He takes almost all his compensation in Capital Gains which are taxed lower. He only takes a 100K salary but that salary is taxed at a higher rate than his secretary. Since he controls how he and she are both compensated his rants are dishonest

2) he still pays 1000 times more in taxes than she does-does anyone seriously believe he uses more in government services than he pays in taxes

3) the dems and other class warfare advocates always like to use Buffett as a prototype for those who are targeted for tax hike soaking-those making 200K to a couple million a year. That is the main target of the obamatards.
Click to expand...

Other than the BS in your post I will say this: Taxation isn't just on salary. If you think it is you're ignorant. And furthermore the middle and lower class do not have the means to play a shell game with their income like the upper class elite including the corporations that keep their headquarters off shore.
 
Last edited:
EnigmaO01 said:
Another myth with no verification. Nice to see you believe whatever backs up your idealogy without any proof.
Click to expand...

the top 1% pay 40% of the income tax and practically all of the death tax

they pay more for each dollar of government services received than any other group

and 47% of people don't pay any income tax and those making under about 117,000 a year are essentially net tax consumers-its that income level where someone starts paying more in income taxes than they use in the services paid for by income taxes
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Other than the BS in your post I will say this: Taxation isn't just on salary. If you think it is you're ignorant. And furthermore the middle and lower class do not have the means to play a shell game with their income like the upper class elite including the corporations that keep their headquarters off shore.
Click to expand...

I note that its funny watching those who aren't high net taxpayers constantly presuming to know more about economics and gaining wealth than those who are. Like many class warfare advocates, you want to lump all of those targeted for the clinton-pelosi-obama tax hikes into the bill gates class when the top rates hit those making 200K a year not just those with say LeBron James level salaries

try to refute what I said and spare me the sanctimonious bs
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Got any stats to prove that or did you just pull that out of our ass? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

are you really going to argue that point? speaking of pulling crap out of one's ass

part of being intelligent is using it

duh
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Other than the BS in your post I will say this: Taxation isn't just on salary. If you think it is you're ignorant. And furthermore the middle and lower class do not have the means to play a shell game with their income like the upper class elite including the corporations that keep their headquarters off shore.
Click to expand...

Middle and lower class people don't have to play shell games with their incomes, because they usually qualify for the earned income credit.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Another myth with no verification. Nice to see you believe whatever backs up your idealogy without any proof.
Click to expand...

What he said is close to true if we are talking simply personal income tax but of course everybody pays sales tax, taxes on things like cell phone services, property taxes, etc., I don't know the exact percentages but it is true that the wealthy shoulder the majority of the tax burden and should. But the question is when does that burden become so high it affect others in free market society. Buy nice cars, boats, building home, etc,. and it employs a lot of people who don't have to live off the government. Why is it you cannot see the tremendous waste in government spending and realize that it too is keeping a lot of people in poverty. Are you not jealous of all those CEO's in Congress (Senators) that are getting wealthy spending our money?
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
Middle and lower class people don't have to play shell games with their incomes, because they usually qualify for the earned income credit.
Click to expand...

libs whine that people who pay far more in taxes then they ever use in government services use "loopholes" or engage in tax evasion but never note that the biggest loophole of all is not paying taxes and having others fund your government services and yet you still have a vote as valuable as any billionaire
 
I'm having a hard time understanding how you can say this:

Morality Games said:
The American people need to stop being melodramatic. There's no moral or practical value in it.
Click to expand...

followed by this:

Also, being the wealthiest and most powerful nation doesn't amount to much when a majority of the population is poverty stricken. All the wealth and power is concentrated into a few persons, with the teeming millions falling into "general utility and support group."
Click to expand...

with a straight face.
 
TurtleDude said:
the top 1% pay 40% of the income tax and practically all of the death tax
Click to expand...
Considering the top 20% owns over 90% of the wealth in the US, I'd say that's a pretty fair set-up

they pay more for each dollar of government services received than any other group
Click to expand...
Bull****, the top-payers get a truckload of non-direct social benefits from being a member of our society.

and 47% of people don't pay any income tax and those making under about 117,000 a year are essentially net tax consumers-its that income level where someone starts paying more in income taxes than they use in the services paid for by income taxes
Click to expand...
Proof?
 
Hoplite said:
Considering the top 20% owns over 90% of the wealth in the US, I'd say that's a pretty fair set-up


Bull****, the top-payers get a truckload of non-direct social benefits from being a member of our society.

Proof?
Click to expand...
Have you yet to figure out that a tax on income is based on income not wealth and a tax on wealth would never pass muster

the richest 1% of tax payers make 22% of the income yet pay 40% of the INCOME tax which is clearly disproportionate

try to at least understand the terms before making assertions that have NO RELEVANCE to the issue

what exact benefits do us top taxpayers get

i think you are making that up
 
TurtleDude said:
Have you yet to figure out that a tax on income is based on income not wealth and a tax on wealth would never pass muster
Click to expand...
You have to ACQUIRE that wealth somehow, which is usually income if its legal.

the richest 1% of tax payers make 22% of the income yet pay 40% of the INCOME tax which is clearly disproportionate
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. Those who can contribute more are asked to do so in exchange for benefits.

what exact benefits do us top taxpayers get

i think you are making that up
Click to expand...
Well then, pay attention, cutie.

The top 1% gain a significant amount by paying more. We have varying social attitudes about the "super rich" however it would be laughable to say we treat or value someone who makes $20,000 a year the same as we do someone who makes $2,000,000 a year. Our society has a much kinder view of the wealthy and treats them with far gentler hands in almost every aspect of it's operation. This can be ably demonstrated by the well-known maxim "Poor man's law, rich man's justice"; the fact that our legal system is slanted heavily in favor of the wealthy. Our political system is also a game for the wealthy; how many politicians do you know in the modern era who have to shop at the bargain bins? Our healthcare industry is also much more open to those with great amounts of money as they can afford comprehensive preventative care or new treatments that are often too expensive for your average 20k-er.

Our social mentality about the rich is also quite generous; despite some leanings in the opposite direction, the majority of our society tends to think highly of someone with money and those with less money will often go to great lengths to emulate the super wealthy. Our popular culture and entertainment glamorizes the lifestyle of obscene wealth and there are ways for even the poor to "try on" the high life if only for a while.
 
Hoplite said:
You have to ACQUIRE that wealth somehow, which is usually income if its legal.
Click to expand...

And all of that income was taxed once already.

Well then, pay attention, cutie.

The top 1% gain a significant amount by paying more. We have varying social attitudes about the "super rich" however it would be laughable to say we treat or value someone who makes $20,000 a year the same as we do someone who makes $2,000,000 a year. Our society has a much kinder view of the wealthy and treats them with far gentler hands in almost every aspect of it's operation. This can be ably demonstrated by the well-known maxim "Poor man's law, rich man's justice"; the fact that our legal system is slanted heavily in favor of the wealthy. Our political system is also a game for the wealthy; how many politicians do you know in the modern era who have to shop at the bargain bins? Our healthcare industry is also much more open to those with great amounts of money as they can afford comprehensive preventative care or new treatments that are often too expensive for your average 20k-er.

Our social mentality about the rich is also quite generous; despite some leanings in the opposite direction, the majority of our society tends to think highly of someone with money and those with less money will often go to great lengths to emulate the super wealthy. Our popular culture and entertainment glamorizes the lifestyle of obscene wealth and there are ways for even the poor to "try on" the high life if only for a while.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem: None of the alleged benefits that you're claiming exist solely because of their income, but because they pay money for those benefits. That's not at all the point.
 
the socialists claim we gain so much more by being soaked by scumbag politicians such as Obama who appeal to the socialists,the parasites, the envious and the slothful to vote for Obama because he is going to soak the wealthy.

I couldn't give a flying wazzooo what you think of the rich-stop trying to justify class warfare by reasons you do not believe

tell me what De Jure advantages someone paying half of their income in taxes get that you do not

I do not get any de jure extra benefits for being soaked de jure
 
RightinNYC said:
And all of that income was taxed once already.
Click to expand...
Im well aware of that.

Here's the problem: None of the alleged benefits that you're claiming exist solely because of their income, but because they pay money for those benefits. That's not at all the point.
Click to expand...
Turtle asked what the top payers get for paying so much extra and I answered the question.

TurtleDude said:
the socialists claim we gain so much more by being soaked by scumbag politicians such as Obama who appeal to the socialists,the parasites, the envious and the slothful to vote for Obama because he is going to soak the wealthy.

I couldn't give a flying wazzooo what you think of the rich-stop trying to justify class warfare by reasons you do not believe

tell me what De Jure advantages someone paying half of their income in taxes get that you do not

I do not get any de jure extra benefits for being soaked de jure
Click to expand...
You're here to rant and rave, gotcha.

Welcome to the ignore list
 
Hoplite said:
Im well aware of that.
Click to expand...

So why does it matter that they have accumulated that wealth?

Turtle asked what the top payers get for paying so much extra and I answered the question.
Click to expand...

My point is that they don't get any of those benefits in exchange for paying extra taxes, they get those benefits in exchange for paying extra money (should they choose to). The fact that you pay a lot in taxes does not in and of itself do anything for you.
 
Hoplite said:
Im well aware of that.


Turtle asked what the top payers get for paying so much extra and I answered the question.


You're here to rant and rave, gotcha.

Welcome to the ignore list
Click to expand...

You never answered the question

you said the rich get more-you have yet to demonstrate an iota of evidence



that the rich can afford better attorneys is not a "government benefit"

that the rich can afford more health care is not a government benefit

that the rich actually use less police and fire protection is not a government benefit

people who pay no taxes get the same vote as I do and since there are more ne'er do wells than industrious tax payers, those who don't pay taxes can outvote the wealthy

so tell me what benefits written into the law do the rich get

Ignore=running away
 
RightinNYC said:
So why does it matter that they have accumulated that wealth?



My point is that they don't get any of those benefits in exchange for paying extra taxes, they get those benefits in exchange for paying extra money (should they choose to). The fact that you pay a lot in taxes does not in and of itself do anything for you.
Click to expand...

exactly, socialists tend to think that getting a large salary is a benefit from the government which it is not. They seem to forget that those who earn a lot have usually done something economically valuable or useful. FOr example, if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, JP Jones and Bonzo's son Jason announce a world tour tomorrow, they would sell 100 million in tickets within a day. Is the government giving them 100 million or is it that a million people believe hearing Led Zeppelin play live is worth-to each of them-100 dollars of entertainment?

Hoplite and those like him assume that those who earn alot are "Given something" when in reality they are trading value for value
 
TurtleDude said:
exactly, socialists tend to think that getting a large salary is a benefit from the government which it is not. They seem to forget that those who earn a lot have usually done something economically valuable or useful. FOr example, if Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, JP Jones and Bonzo's son Jason announce a world tour tomorrow, they would sell 100 million in tickets within a day. Is the government giving them 100 million or is it that a million people believe hearing Led Zeppelin play live is worth-to each of them-100 dollars of entertainment?

Hoplite and those like him assume that those who earn alot are "Given something" when in reality they are trading value for value
Click to expand...

That's because socialists tend to believe that all money belongs to the government and we're all simply using it, by their permission.

Plus, they tend to believe in things like "zero-sum."
 
Harshaw said:
That's because socialists tend to believe that all money belongs to the government and we're all simply using it, by their permission.
Click to expand...
Not actually true. Why not try asking a Socialist what they believe instead of making up what sounds good and calling it a day? Less fun, I know, but more intellectually honest.

RightinNYC said:
So why does it matter that they have accumulated that wealth?
Click to expand...
Im confused as to what your point is.

My point is that they don't get any of those benefits in exchange for paying extra taxes, they get those benefits in exchange for paying extra money (should they choose to). The fact that you pay a lot in taxes does not in and of itself do anything for you.
Click to expand...
No one expressly comes around and ensures they have all these benefits, but our society is almost unequivocally set up to give these benefits to those with greater wealth

Externalities may not be tangible, but they're still a factor.
 
Hoplite said:
Not actually true. Why not try asking a Socialist what they believe instead of making up what sounds good and calling it a day? Less fun, I know, but more intellectually honest.
Click to expand...

Oh, I've had the conversation many times. And if you're going to be on a kick about "intellectual honesty," you might note that I said "tend to," not "all do."
 
Hoplite said:
Im confused as to what your point is.

No one expressly comes around and ensures they have all these benefits, but our society is almost unequivocally set up to give these benefits to those with greater wealth

Externalities may not be tangible, but they're still a factor.
Click to expand...

Turtledude is arguing that these people pay more in taxes than they are getting back. You responded by arguing that they obtain all sorts of special benefits. My point is that they get those benefits if and when they choose to pay for them. They do not get those benefits automatically by virtue of paying more income taxes than other people. Accordingly, the argument that these people are getting special benefits in exchange for their increased tax burden is incorrect.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom