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Thread: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

  1. #231
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    What he said is close to true if we are talking simply personal income tax but of course everybody pays sales tax, taxes on things like cell phone services, property taxes, etc., I don't know the exact percentages but it is true that the wealthy shoulder the majority of the tax burden and should. But the question is when does that burden become so high it affect others in free market society. Buy nice cars, boats, building home, etc,. and it employs a lot of people who don't have to live off the government. Why is it you cannot see the tremendous waste in government spending and realize that it too is keeping a lot of people in poverty. Are you not jealous of all those CEO's in Congress (Senators) that are getting wealthy spending our money?
    Everbody pays sales tax, cell phone tax, and property tax? Are you kidding me?
    What about those that operate their businesses under the table, or in cash only, those who don't have cell phones, (hell I don't have one), and those that don't own property?

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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    I'm still waiting for proof of some kind or for God's sake at least a link, and I see I'm not alone. If it's so true why can't you produce one? I suppose you could be an elightened economist but for all I know you're the local garbage man.
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
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  3. #233
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm at a loss for how you think this is a response to anything that anyone has said.
    Well he said that people don't start companies to create jobs. I was just wanting to make sure that he wasn't completely undervaluing the worker. It's hard not to sound Communist (and I'm not), but what I've seen in the past 10 - 20 years is the devaluation of the American worker.

    Again, CEO salaries up 300% while employee wages up 4.3% during the same time frame.

    And I know that the not-for-profit world has its issues, too. But in my not-for-profit, we've had to lose two staff members (thankfully to attrition as opposed to layoffs) of five. That means the three of us work a hell of lot harder, but until things turn around, no raises. Thankfully, we've devised some ideas that we think could raise enough money to bring back at least one staff position and give raises to the three full-time staffers. But we've done it through creativity.

    Why do CEOs get to fail their workers AND shareholders and collect $24 million? How can we not recognize that something is incredibly wrong in that system?

  4. #234
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Well he said that people don't start companies to create jobs. I was just wanting to make sure that he wasn't completely undervaluing the worker. It's hard not to sound Communist (and I'm not), but what I've seen in the past 10 - 20 years is the devaluation of the American worker.

    Again, CEO salaries up 300% while employee wages up 4.3% during the same time frame.
    As I noted above, these figures are useless in a vacuum.

    Graphs like this are terrible because they always seem to lack information about how they calculate their numbers. How do they define CEOs? When they measure corporate profits, what corporations are they measuring? As it is, these numbers are useless.
    ...


    And I know that the not-for-profit world has its issues, too. But in my not-for-profit, we've had to lose two staff members (thankfully to attrition as opposed to layoffs) of five. That means the three of us work a hell of lot harder, but until things turn around, no raises. Thankfully, we've devised some ideas that we think could raise enough money to bring back at least one staff position and give raises to the three full-time staffers. But we've done it through creativity.
    And the exact same thing has happened at many for profit corps.

    Why do CEOs get to fail their workers AND shareholders and collect $24 million?
    Why was Carl Pavano able to collect $40 million from the Yankees despite being an absolute ****pile? That's the downside of a world where people are free to contract. You have to take the good with the bad.

    If corporations want to include clauses in their CEO contracts that eliminate bonuses for poor management, that's fine. Similarly, if a baseball team wants to offer a player an incentive-laden contract, that's fine too. What is entirely ridiculous is the idea that society should be able to retroactively tell a CEO/player that because he did poorly, he will have his contract unilaterally modified.

    How can we not recognize that something is incredibly wrong in that system?
    Again, that's a matter that is between a CEO and his corporation's shareholders.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 09-05-10 at 12:08 AM.
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  5. #235
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! Just wow....Cyborg comes up with, and takes the time to post a wonderfully thoughtful, and realistic lay out of how a small business needs to have assets, and capital resource to stay afloat in economic down turns like the one liberals, and Obama are purposely causing today, while giving the masses phony numbers to placate them. And the best you can come up with is talking point garbage?

    Weak dude, very weak.


    j-mac

    Speaking of weak, I'm still waiting for some kind of link from your last two posts. I guess i won't get one. At least cyborg posted something even though he cherry picked his link and actually contradicted it.

  6. #236
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Workers are not the point of a business, so I don't get what the problem here is. You claim the CEO mismanaged the company, but the Board paid him. IF he failed they could have fired him. So...

    What he did for the people who matter was enough to earn the cash. I don't see the problem.
    Has it ever occurred to you the board rewards underacheivers and keeps them on because they want to be next in line for the gravy train? Otherwise i can't see any good motive for keeping on someone that tanks the company. I sure wouldn't in my two businesses.

  7. #237
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Has it ever occurred to you the board rewards underacheivers and keeps them on because they want to be next in line for the gravy train?
    What on earth are you basing this on? First, many (most?) CEOs are not selected from the board. Second, even when new CEO's are selected from the board, it's not like everyone on the board thinks it will be them - there are usually only one or two candidates. Third, board directors generally receive the bulk of their compensation in the form of stock in the company. Keeping an unqualified CEO in office is completely contrary to their interests.

    This is just ridiculous.
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    As I noted above, these figures are useless in a vacuum.

    And the exact same thing has happened at many for profit corps.

    Why was Carl Pavano able to collect $40 million from the Yankees despite being an absolute ****pile? That's the downside of a world where people are free to contract. You have to take the good with the bad.

    If corporations want to include clauses in their CEO contracts that eliminate bonuses for poor management, that's fine. Similarly, if a baseball team wants to offer a player an incentive-laden contract, that's fine too. What is entirely ridiculous is the idea that society should be able to retroactively tell a CEO/player that because he did poorly, he will have his contract unilaterally modified.

    Again, that's a matter that is between a CEO and his corporation's shareholders.
    Well, that's where you and I disagree. I think there's a cultural flaw involved, because most shareholders are only connected to the company very loosely through mutual funds or retirement accounts, so they have no direct tie to the company even if they're shareholders.

    Thus, it's only the highest investors who can withstand the losses making the decision to pay off terrible performers with multi-million dollar bonuses.

    My problem is that we've created a system in this nation that values wealth over work. How else do you explain the stagnation of wages for most workers while CEO pay has increased in massive amounts. I know you say you discredit such numbers "in a vacuum", but why did that happen? Why, in your opinion, did CEO pay increase in rapid amounts while most Americans saw their wages stagnate?

  9. #239
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Well, that's where you and I disagree. I think there's a cultural flaw involved, because most shareholders are only connected to the company very loosely through mutual funds or retirement accounts, so they have no direct tie to the company even if they're shareholders.

    Thus, it's only the highest investors who can withstand the losses making the decision to pay off terrible performers with multi-million dollar bonuses.
    I don't see how this really rebuts my point. It's entirely normal and appropriate to enter into contracts that provide guaranteed amounts. If companies didn't do that, they would have to pay more up front.

    My problem is that we've created a system in this nation that values wealth over work. How else do you explain the stagnation of wages for most workers while CEO pay has increased in massive amounts. I know you say you discredit such numbers "in a vacuum", but why did that happen? Why, in your opinion, did CEO pay increase in rapid amounts while most Americans saw their wages stagnate?
    I explain that by saying that I don't think it's anywhere near as significant as you're saying. Again, where are those numbers coming from? They're useless without more - if you actually adjust for company size, I bet it's much less noteworthy.
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  10. #240
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Still waiting for at least a link. Just because you say so doesn't make it so.
    do you demand a link proving that the sun rises from the east as well? DO you play such evasive games because you don't like the facts? FOR YEARS the fans of the death tax justify it saying only 1% of estates pay that tax and there have been dozens of links to the income tax burdens. GIYLF



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