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Thread: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

  1. #211
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    This thread isn't about corporations making money, it's about greedy CEO's laying off workers and getting compenated for it.
    What's wrong with CEO's being rewarded for increasing profits for those that matter?
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    What's wrong with CEO's being rewarded for increasing profits for those that matter?
    Nothing's wrong with that if the company did, in fact, make a profit. Obviously, the companies mentioned in the OP didn't do that. So, why should the CEO's walk away like fat cats while their employees run to the very unemployment lines some of you perceived as a revolving door of government handouts? These hard working individuals didn't do anything except come to work on time, put in their 8+ hrs a day/40+ hrs a week helping to turn out the products and services their companies exist to provide. Yet, when these companies have been mismanaged it's not the CEO's who walk away with nothing, it is the employees. Where is their golden parachute for being hard working individuals? Why should they get the shaft while the CEOs who mismanaged the company walk away with millions?

    As far as I'm concerned, if as a CEO your company's profit margin goes in the red to such a degree that you have to layoff employees, you haven't done your job very well and, therefore, you don't deserve severance pay in the millions when you walk away from that company or are fired by your former Board of Directors. You didn't earn that money; it was "given" to you. Shareholders, employees and even the public have a right to be pissed off under such circumstances.

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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Nothing's wrong with that if the company did, in fact, make a profit. Obviously, the companies mentioned in the OP didn't do that.
    How is that "obvious"? The story in the OP didn't say anything about profits at all. True, liblady said something in the OP about "running the company into the ground," but that isn't borne out by the story.

    In fact:

    News Headlines

    Johnson & Johnson Profit Up, Lowers Full-Year Forecast

    Schering-Plough Hits Four-Month High, Profit Up 45% (Update3) - Bloomberg

    So, I'm not sure what's "obvious" about it. These companies are not only NOT being run into the ground, they're quite profitable.
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Nothing's wrong with that if the company did, in fact, make a profit. Obviously, the companies mentioned in the OP didn't do that. So, why should the CEO's walk away like fat cats while their employees run to the very unemployment lines some of you perceived as a revolving door of government handouts? These hard working individuals didn't do anything except come to work on time, put in their 8+ hrs a day/40+ hrs a week helping to turn out the products and services their companies exist to provide. Yet, when these companies have been mismanaged it's not the CEO's who walk away with nothing, it is the employees. Where is their golden parachute for being hard working individuals? Why should they get the shaft while the CEOs who mismanaged the company walk away with millions?

    As far as I'm concerned, if as a CEO your company's profit margin goes in the red to such a degree that you have to layoff employees, you haven't done your job very well and, therefore, you don't deserve severance pay in the millions when you walk away from that company or are fired by your former Board of Directors. You didn't earn that money; it was "given" to you. Shareholders, employees and even the public have a right to be pissed off under such circumstances.
    Workers are not the point of a business, so I don't get what the problem here is. You claim the CEO mismanaged the company, but the Board paid him. IF he failed they could have fired him. So...

    What he did for the people who matter was enough to earn the cash. I don't see the problem.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    This thread isn't about corporations making money, it's about greedy CEO's laying off workers and getting compenated for it.

    such as United Health Groups ceo Stephen Hemsley, who pulled down an eye popping $101,959,866 last year. I believe that figures out at around $475K per hour for a forty-hour week. I believe I could get by on that and not be eaten neck bones and beans for a while.

    Minnesota's highest-paid executives
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    This is accurate, but Hewlitt-Packard (the example company) is the prime example of rewarding CEOs for terrible performance. Hell, Carly Fiorino is running saying she created jobs, when in actuality she just fired a bunch of people, lost shareholder value, got fired, and then waltzed off with a huge golden parachute payment. Now, this guy gets charged with sexual harassment, the company loses money again, they fire more people, and he gets $24 million to celebrate with.

    What I'm sick of are people thinking that CEOs are somehow more glorious and wonderful, while government servers are self-serving - when in reality, they're all of the same ilk.

    I don't trust them any more than I trust government.

    And here's why:



    CEO salaries up 300% since 1995. Have profits risen 300% during that time? No. They didn't.

    CEOs are fat, bloated, and extremely overpaid.

    If you fail to see that over the past couple of decades this nation has devalued work and over-valued wealth, then you're simply not paying attention.

    And look here:



    This is entirely an American phenomenon. In most other nations, CEOs aren't paid 400 to 500 times their employees. They're well compensated ($200,000 to $1.7 million), but it's not quite so outrageous. And their companies are equally as successful. Why is that?

    Maybe it's because they understand that the CEO isn't the ONLY reason for being profitable? Whereas in this country we seem to deem them to be all-knowing sages who apparently are the only ones deserving of reward - whether they succeed or not.
    good data. but it does not confirm your presentation that American (banking) CEOs are over compensated compared to their foreign counterparts. look at the aussie and spanish CEOs as two examples

    but at those banks as with H-P, those CEOs receive what the shareholders agree to pay. if the stock owner is dissatisfied with the CEOs performance, then they only have to divest themselves of that stock and buy the stock of another whose CEO performance they are satisfied

    in my opinion, a better way to compensate these executives would be to link the long term performance of the company to their compensation package. where incentives are focused only on short term results, the executive will very possibly (and not unreasonably) sacrifice long term gains in favor of short term gains. even if the long term gains would be substantially better
    in professional sports, it makes sense to compensate short-term, for the year's performance, because the player's impact this year is going to have no impact on next year's record. (curiously, pro sports compensation is structured backwards, where long term contracts are awarded - often without long term justification ... but i digress)
    if compensation were to compensate today's executive tomorrow (say three to five years out), where a portion of the compensation was going to be dependent on company achievements in years 2,3,4 and 5, rather than only year one, then we would probably see more long term strategic decisions by those executives
    but again, if the stockholders of a company are content to what some would say 'overpay' their CEOs, then as the owners of the company, that is their right
    now, if the company were unionized, it is doubtful the CEO would as easily be able to dismiss employees. but that topic likely deserves its own thread
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Being able to borrow isn't the biggest problem the small business has.
    that varies from business to business, but for many businesses today, inability to renew credit lines is their foremost concern
    They aren't going to borrow if they don't know if they can pay it back.
    sure they are. what do they care if they fail to pay it back (so long as they are not personally guaranteeing repayment of the loan). if the business folds for lack of access to capital and is unable to repay that loan then they are out of a job anyway
    This administration has caused so much uncertainty no one is going to start a new business or expand when they have no idea what's coming down the road. They need permanent tax cuts.
    you must have loved the last (mis)administration, which had as its answer for any problem: "tax cuts". notice that the financial melt down took place at the end of that "tax cutting" regime. that alone should tell you something (whether you choose to listen is another story)
    do a google search for GAO report of tax payment. it will reveal that most corporations do NOT pay any taxes. taxes are an expense of doing business, where loopholes cannot be found. a few more percentage point in taxes is not going to affect a business unless it is so marginal that those few point make the difference between profitability and insolvency
    no body and no business wants to pay more taxes. but to say that the tax rates, now the lowest in half a century, are adversely affecting business performance is beyond laughable
    They need to know what's in the HC bill. They need to know what new regulations are coming their way concerning any cap and trade or energy bill.
    Borrowing money is probably the farthest thing from their minds.
    companies, just like consumers, would prefer to know what is on the horizon which will impact them. but we have had ADA requirements, EPA requirement, labor requirements imposed on business in the past and they continued to operate within those imposed constraints. the business of business is to make money. they will work around any imposed restraints to continue to make money. what affects them also affects their American business counterparts. now i will agree with you, that where newly imposed constraints impact American businesses where they do not impact the foreign competition, that aspect does adversely affect American business operation and formation in this now global economy
    I'm glad the Rep. are continuing to say no to more spending.
    you are more optimistic than i, as i see no sign that government spending is being reined in. my hope is you are right and i am wrong on this point
    People will get off their money when they are comfortable about investing it.
    actually, people, and especially businesses, are still trying to gauge in which direction the economy is headed. it is smart to hoard money during this deflationary period. what can be bought today might be bought cheaper tomorrow
    and the banks unwillingness to lend is also tied to that factor
    however, the multinational banks were infused with American taxpayer money while American community banks were not. that American taxpayer infused capital of the multinational banks is being lent to the south koreans, the israelis, the brazilians, the chinese. meanwhile, American small businesses are dying on the vine from lack of cash flow. the community banks, which are the predominant lenders to American small businesses, were hammered by the meltdown, too. and their profitability, and liquidity, suffers also from increased reserve requirements imposed after the meltdown, as well as from the decline of main street

    the republican refusal to provide more capital to community banks is in direct opposition to America's needs*. small business is the generator of most new jobs. we have a consumer economy dependent on an employed, wage earning public. providing community banks with the means and the imperative to lend to America's small business community is essential if we hope to pull out of this (notso) Great Recession



    * full disclosure. one of my company's business services is to write government guaranteed loan packages for community lenders. the potential for my bias is evident
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    What's wrong with CEO's being rewarded for increasing profits for those that matter?
    Nothing. But did you notice that while profits double, CEO pay rose 300% and worker pay was up 4.3%.

    Why do CEOs get basically ALL of the reward. Despite being the leader, they're not the only reason profit exists.

    Why should someone whose company lost value and who resigned under the cloud of a harassment investigation get a $24 million bonus? Do you defend that practice.

    I suppose if you were in California you'd be lusting for Carly Fiorina who claims she knows how to create jobs. She didn't create jobs. She fired people, the company lost 40% of its value under her reign and she was given a $45 golden parachute. That makes her ready to govern?

    What other class of employee gets multi-million dollar bonuses for getting fired for incompetence?

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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I don't trust them any more than I trust government.

    And here's why:



    CEO salaries up 300% since 1995. Have profits risen 300% during that time? No. They didn't.

    CEOs are fat, bloated, and extremely overpaid.
    Graphs like this are terrible because they always seem to lack information about how they calculate their numbers. How do they define CEOs? When they measure corporate profits, what corporations are they measuring? As it is, these numbers are useless.

    Do you actually believe for one second that the CEO of the two largest banks in the world earn $200k/year? China is notorious for lying its ass off about how the state allocates money. They have an image of economic equality to protect, and they do it by announcing that they only pay those CEOs a tiny amount of money. I bet their monthly booze allowances are greater than $200k.

    This is entirely an American phenomenon. In most other nations, CEOs aren't paid 400 to 500 times their employees. They're well compensated ($200,000 to $1.7 million), but it's not quite so outrageous.
    That's the exact opposite of what your graph says. Even if we set aside the Chinese examples, you've got spanish guys making 13.6m and 6.8m, a Canadian guy making 9.5m, Aussies making 8 and 7 million, and an Italian making 5m. The US numbers on your graph are quite comparable.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 09-04-10 at 05:15 PM.
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  10. #220
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    Re: CEOs lay off thousands, rake in millions

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow! Just wow....Cyborg comes up with, and takes the time to post a wonderfully thoughtful, and realistic lay out of how a small business needs to have assets, and capital resource to stay afloat in economic down turns like the one liberals, and Obama are purposely causing today, while giving the masses phony numbers to placate them. And the best you can come up with is talking point garbage?

    Weak dude, very weak.


    j-mac
    Then why don’t he defend his position instead of just doing drivebys….check out his past post, all he does is post s*** and run.. After all this is called “DEBATE Politics “not hit and run politics.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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