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Thread: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Hmmmm I think I have heard this style of rebuttal before - whenever someone posts something that others do not want to hear it is labelled "alarmism". But that is alright. Meanwhile I will continue to care for my poor wonderful and gentle indigenous people of Australia who are dying far far far too young of alcohol related diseases.
    Your post is a good example of the fallacy of hasty generalization. You work with a small population who has a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, and is killing themselves with abusing the substance. Your words have about as much relevance to this discussion as a random rendition of Yankee Doodle Dandy.


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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Holy crap, what I had to go through to get this. I think I just signed away my first born child.

    http://www.ufrealms.com/Late_Life_Al..._mortality.pdf
    ************SNAP!!**************

    Cochrane Database of systematic reviews

    CONCLUSIONS: A pattern of usual alcohol intake consistent with the NHMRC recommendations will confer a mortality risk similar to or less than that observed in abstainers. The biologically effective dose of alcohol on mortality in women is approximately two standard drinks per day less than in men. Our validation is most reliable for drinkers aged 35 years or older.
    Meta-analysis of alcohol and all-cause mortality: a validation of NHMRC recommendations
    Author(s) Holman CD, English DR, Milne E, Winter MG
    Source Med J Aust
    Date of Publication 1996

    However those NHMRC guidelines have since been updated and tightened and they now read

    Guideline 1: Reducing the risk of alcohol-related harm over a lifetime

    The lifetime risk of harm from drinking alcohol increases with the amount consumed.
    Alcohol Frequently Asked Questions | National Health and Medical Research Council
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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Oh, SNAP! From your source:

    For healthy men and women, drinking no more than two standard drinks on any day reduces the lifetime risk of harm from alcohol-related disease or injury.
    2 drinks or less = MODERATE CONSUMPTION.

    Read sources before posting.

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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Your post is a good example of the fallacy of hasty generalization. You work with a small population who has a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, and is killing themselves with abusing the substance. Your words have about as much relevance to this discussion as a random rendition of Yankee Doodle Dandy.

    Believe me it is not only the indigenous - but they are the worst affected. See my previous post for the evidence basing - it is difficult to source material more valid than Cochrane because it is a meta-analysis of the research
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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Believe me it is not only the indigenous - but they are the worst affected. See my previous post for the evidence basing - it is difficult to source material more valid than Cochrane because it is a meta-analysis of the research
    Unlike you, I actually read your links.

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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Oh, SNAP! From your source:



    2 drinks or less = MODERATE CONSUMPTION.

    Read sources before posting.
    Errrrr - read it yourself - REDUCES THE RISK OF LIFETIME HARM

    Guideline 1 STILL states

    The lifetime risk of harm increases with intake.

    But I am well aware of the beneficial effects of red wine in prevention of heart disease. The point is moderation to a LOW level of consumption - which is rare to see.

    My concern is that research, reported as this has been is like telling a diabetic that "sugar is good for some people"
    Last edited by bowerbird; 09-01-10 at 12:20 PM.
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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Some more info
    Alcohol And Health


    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    But I am well aware of the beneficial effects of red wine in prevention of heart disease. The point is moderation to a LOW level of consumption - which is rare to see.
    Yes, the point IS moderation, but no it's not rare to see. More people consume moderately than heavily.

    My concern is that research, reported as this has been is like telling a diabetic that "sugar is good for some people"
    Sugar is necessary for survival, so it is good for ALL people. People with certain conditions have to manage it differently, is all.

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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Some more info
    Alcohol And Health



    Yes, the point IS moderation, but no it's not rare to see. More people consume moderately than heavily.


    Sugar is necessary for survival, so it is good for ALL people. People with certain conditions have to manage it differently, is all.
    You haven't read the latest research on sugar..............


    Perhaps I do have some bias but remember Australia is one of the heaviest consumers of alcohol in the world (Germans outflank us)
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    The internet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.


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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    You haven't read the latest research on sugar..............
    You mean like it's the basic fuel for our bodies? Essential to our cell function? That without it we would die?

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    Re: Why Do Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    You mean like it's the basic fuel for our bodies? Essential to our cell function? That without it we would die?
    No I mean in the sense that we can get get C6H12O6 from complex carbohydrates which are better for us as they are slower to digest...............Oh! You are confusing sugar with GLUCOSE - different thing altogether..

    SUCROSE is the refined carbohydrate that the Western world is currently killing itself with
    Last edited by bowerbird; 09-01-10 at 12:52 PM.
    Greenhouse gases: Any gas that, by an accident of chemistry, happens to absorb radiation of a type that the Earth, by an accident of history, would like to lose.
    The internet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.


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