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Thread: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

  1. #381
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Christian extremists and Islamic extremists are exactly the same -- very vocal and very few.

    Trying to draw some distinction between the two is just foolish.
    Mi amigo, Coronado...

    Do you know what Evangelical means? An Evangelical is one who believes in preaching the gospel, i.e. the "good news" and converting lost souls to Christ. If you are crass enough to believe in brownie points, the worse the individual is, the more brownie points there are for conversion. Consequently, it goes against the doctrine to kill non-believers, etc. unless required by self defense because then they lose all chance at salvation.

    A Muslim can defend his faith and be praised for killing an unbeliever just because he is an unbeliever. Christian theology is exactly the opposite. The heroes of the New Testament never killed. Ever. The closest you can get to it is Paul before he was converted. And then he was killing Christians. There are only two instances of "Christian" violence in the entire New Testament. 1) Christ used a whip when he drove the money changers out of the temple, and 2) When Peter cut off the ear of a man arresting Jesus at Gethsemane. Even then, he was admonished for it and the ear was healed.

    I don't think you'll find that example in Islamic history.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Mi amigo, Coronado...
    I am not your amigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Do you know what Evangelical means? An Evangelical is one who believes in preaching the gospel, i.e. the "good news" and converting lost souls to Christ. If you are crass enough to believe in brownie points, the worse the individual is, the more brownie points there are for conversion. Consequently, it goes against the doctrine to kill non-believers, etc. unless required by self defense because then they lose all chance at salvation.
    I know exactly what it means. Do not patronize me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    A Muslim can defend his faith and be praised for killing an unbeliever just because he is an unbeliever. Christian theology is exactly the opposite. The heroes of the New Testament never killed. Ever. The closest you can get to it is Paul before he was converted. And then he was killing Christians. There are only two instances of "Christian" violence in the entire New Testament. 1) Christ used a whip when he drove the money changers out of the temple, and 2) When Peter cut off the ear of a man arresting Jesus at Gethsemane. Even then, he was admonished for it and the ear was healed.

    I don't think you'll find that example in Islamic history.
    How many Muslims have to come through here and tell you that is not the practice of the mainstream of Islam? Do you think people like Degreez and Laila are liars? Or perhaps they are ignorant, right? Further, do you really want to do the historic body count of Christianity, too? Oh, but those weren't true Scotsmen -- I mean Christians, right?

    Ever heard about that Golden Rule they sometimes mention at church? Do you want the Phelpses to represent Christianity? No? Then don't do the same thing to Islam.
    Last edited by Coronado; 09-02-10 at 10:24 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I am not your amigo.

    I know exactly what it means. Do not patronize me.

    How many Muslims have to come through here and tell you that is not the practice of the mainstream of Islam? Do you think people like Degreez and Laila are liars? Or perhaps they are ignorant, right? Further, do you really want to do the historic body count of Christianity, too? Oh, but those weren't true Scotsmen -- I mean Christians, right?

    Ever heard about that Golden Rule they sometimes mention at church? Do you want the Phelpses to represent Christianity? No? Then don't do the same thing to Islam.
    Mi not amigo, Coronado ....

    Whenever you pull up an instance of a "Christian" committing a violent act allegedly in the name of religion, please make two comparisons (And limit your examination to the last 300 years. Lets try and keep it relevant).
    1) Compare the individual and/or group population to the total number of Christians in the U.S.

    2) Compare the amount of public support v. public condemnation.

    Those two comparisons will illustrate why, myself or others feel justified in describing your aberrations as not "real" Christians. In every single case, they will not be supported by 99.9% of the Christian population, and the ratio of public condemnation/support will be about the same.

    In comparison, a large percentage of the Muslim population, while not actually committing terrorist acts or acts agains infidels, will support those who do, with money, other support and public acclaim.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Mi not amigo, Coronado ....

    Whenever you pull up an instance of a "Christian" committing a violent act allegedly in the name of religion, please make two comparisons (And limit your examination to the last 300 years. Lets try and keep it relevant).
    My, that's pretty arbitrary. Let's just forget about the Crusades and how they are, in fact, highly relevant to today.
    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    1) Compare the individual and/or group population to the total number of Christians in the U.S.

    2) Compare the amount of public support v. public condemnation.

    Those two comparisons will illustrate why, myself or others feel justified in describing your aberrations as not "real" Christians. In every single case, they will not be supported by 99.9% of the Christian population, and the ratio of public condemnation/support will be about the same.

    In comparison, a large percentage of the Muslim population, while not actually committing terrorist acts or acts agains infidels, will support those who do, with money, other support and public acclaim.
    Right. Like I said, no true Scotsman.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    My, that's pretty arbitrary. Let's just forget about the Crusades and how they are, in fact, highly relevant to today.
    .
    Mi not highly amigo, Coronado....

    Why 300 years? Because I'm trying to be somewhat relevant. 300 years is a pretty damn good trend to show fundamental changes in thinking. If you want to go back further, then you start running into problems with ability to read, access to the religious texts, etc.

    As for the Crusades, you seem to be forgetting that Palestine/Israel had been governed by the Eastern Roman Empire from roughly 330AD to 670AD or so when the Muslims overran and conquered the ME. At that time, the population was mainly Christian and Jewish. The Crusades were prompted in large part 400 years later because of Muslim interference with Christian pilgrims, something they hadn't done before.

    In fact, the whole history of Christian/Muslim conflict has been Christian defense against Muslim aggression. All of North Africa, Spain & France were mainly Christian before the Muslim expansion and conquest. Muslim expansion in Europe was stopped at Tours, France by Charles Martel. The Moors were driven back, but they weren't evicted from Spain for another 600 years (1492).

    The Turks finally conquered Constantinople (Istanbul today) in 1453. They expanded into Christian Greece and the Balkans. They kidnapped Christian children in the Balkans to form the Janizzaries. The source of the ethnic conflict in the former Yugoslavia and Albania was the forced conversion of a portion of the population. Vlad the Impaler aka Vlad Dracul aka Dracula, made his bones fighting the Turks in the Carpathian mountains of Romania. The last Turkish assault on Vienna, Austria was in 1699.

    Christian Europeans retook Spain. They held parts of Palestine for a number of years (Outremer), and the Balkans were reconquered. The Spanish population remained Christian under Muslim rule and the Muslims were driven out. Muslims in the Balkans and Eastern Europe pretty much stayed, just the rule changed.

    So if you want to go back further, you still don't find what you're looking for. The 1600's had the Reformation and the 30years war, which resulted in a peace between Catholics and Protestants.

    In closing, I still think 300 years is generous. Do you judge a nation today, and project its politics, etc., based on what it was and did 100, 200 or 300 years ago? No, you don't. Because it isn't relevant now and it isn't a good indicator for predicting the future.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why are you putting words in my mouth. I believe Islam is a religion, just like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and dozens of others. I believe that some Muslims are terrorists, just like every other religion has some who are scum. I believe in not judging all by a few.
    Do you believe any other religion today is killing innocent people in the name of their God? Are you familiar at all with the teachings of the Koran? What about the Muslim treatment of women? Homosexuals? Adulterers? How are you with all of that?

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you believe any other religion today is killing innocent people in the name of their God? Are you familiar at all with the teachings of the Koran? What about the Muslim treatment of women? Homosexuals? Adulterers? How are you with all of that?
    Does any of that actually matter? Muslims still have a right to practice here like any other religion. I'm not here to defend Islam, I'm here to defend the Constitution, and if you care about the Constitution you will defend a Muslims right to practice in the US.

    And don't go on a tangent about how they want to destroy the Constitution, so we must stop them from practicing to preserve it. Thats a load of crap. No religion is going to change the Constitution, ever. If it could, Christianity would have done that a long time ago.
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you believe any other religion today is killing innocent people in the name of their God? Are you familiar at all with the teachings of the Koran? What about the Muslim treatment of women? Homosexuals? Adulterers? How are you with all of that?
    Yes, I believe that religion is the excuse used for many killings in the world today.
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Why are you putting words in my mouth. I believe Islam is a religion, just like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and dozens of others. I believe that some Muslims are terrorists, just like every other religion has some who are scum. I believe in not judging all by a few.
    I believ in judgeing them by what I see and all I see from Islam, ar people blaming everyone, but, the terrorists, for Islamic terrorism.

    We see sondemnation of the method, but no condemnation of the motivation. At the end of the day, it's all someone else's fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Does any of that actually matter? Muslims still have a right to practice here like any other religion. I'm not here to defend Islam, I'm here to defend the Constitution, and if you care about the Constitution you will defend a Muslims right to practice in the US.

    And don't go on a tangent about how they want to destroy the Constitution, so we must stop them from practicing to preserve it. Thats a load of crap. No religion is going to change the Constitution, ever. If it could, Christianity would have done that a long time ago.
    But, they don't have the right to support terrorism against the United States.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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