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Thread: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You said this.

    Would you give up your claimed Islamic religion before you gave up your American citizenship?
    No, no religious person would. Religion would come before a nationality.

    But again, the question is flawed. It is assuming I am willing to give up either of those things to begin with.

    It has become obvious you use loaded questions and fallacious reasoning to keep a narrow perspective on something that has existed for over 1400 years.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    To even begin that you would have to understand what jihad really is. It is not synonymous with physical violence. Fighting is only permitted in Islam as self-defense, when one is being persecuted for being a Muslim (like the early Muslims were persecuted by the Quraish). What constitutes radicalism? Deviating from this norm and using aggressive fighting.

    Here is an example of Jihad by striving in goodness for God's cause:

    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

    A man came to the Prophet asking his permission to take part in Jihad. The Prophet asked him, "Are your parents alive?" He replied in the affirmative. The Prophet said to him, "Then exert yourself in their service."
    - Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 248

    A common misconception is that Muslims are commanded to spread Islam with a "convert or die" mentality. This is false, and is easily refuted by this hadith:

    It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Masa that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) deputed any of his Companions on a mission, he would say: Give tidings (to the people) ; do not create (in their minds) aversion (towards religion) ; show them leniency and do not be hard upon them. - Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4297
    I'm aware of the meaning of "Jihad" and its many uses. I'm also aware of the many quotes by Mohammad, and not all of them benign. If you want to explore further what this child molester said and did, then we can certainly do that, but it would not further whatever argument you feel you might have..

    But I'm more interested in the harm Muslims are doing today rather than their goofy beliefs.

  3. #333
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    No, no religious person would. Religion would come before a nationality.

    But again, the question is flawed. It is assuming I am willing to give up either of those things to begin with.

    It has become obvious you use loaded questions and fallacious reasoning to keep a narrow perspective on something that has existed for over 1400 years.
    That's the point i was making, Thanks. The religion always comes first.

  4. #334
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Is it?

    Can you freely enter an airplane now without being searched to the point where you even have to remove your shoes? Millions of people are delayed daily, made to feel uncomfortable, billions of dollars are being spent on heightened security and all as a result of whom?

    And you don't feel your freedoms have been curtailed at all?
    That's the government overreacting and overreaching because some people are too scared of terrorists to get on a plane. Plus I don't fly often so I don't care.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Are you suggesting Christians have never killed? Historically, you would be hard pressed to win that argument. Hell, some kill today in god's name. Ever sit in on a Klan prayer breakfest?
    There are clear examples in Christian tradition where "innocent" is defined.

    A school full of children is the height of "innocent".

    Killing is permitted in war and in self defense. Anything else is murder.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Im wondering...in your vast studies of the middle east...have you been there? We have a lot of 'American Muslims' that live a very different muslim faith than practiced by middle easterners. Wondering what your experience was. many of our soldiers that were muslim were kinda shocked to find out what the 'real' world' was like. Maybe you already have a feel for that...
    I've been to Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia numerous times in my life. I've also been to India and Malaysia. One thing you seem to be forgetting is that Muslim Arabs of the Middle East roughly constitute 16% of all Muslims worldwide. Yet they are the ones you hear the most about. How often do you hear of Chinese Muslims being persecuted?

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But I'm more interested in the harm Muslims are doing today rather than their goofy beliefs.
    No, what you're more interested in is taking people who have hijacked their religion for POLITICAL purposes and lumped them together with the other 99.99999% who practice their religion properly.

    What you're not interested in is an actual honest debate.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's the point i was making, Thanks. The religion always comes first.
    But AGAIN: THE QUESTION IS FLAWED.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're not getting the point yet. You lump all into one concerning Muslims, but ignore that the same wrong lumping can be done with Christians. Silly over generalizations too often lead to poor logic being used. And this poor logic has consequences.
    Again.....

    Let me ask you a question. Make that a couple of questions. Have you ever attended, however briefly, a church which has ever advocated violence against secularists, abortioniests, gays, or other religious groups? Can you find one in your city? I'm going to bet the answer is no, unless you happen to live in Phelp's town. Wow, one known church in the entire country. A church and a preacher who's position is not supported by any other church, congregation or minister.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    There are clear examples in Christian tradition where "innocent" is defined.

    A school full of children is the height of "innocent".

    Killing is permitted in war and in self defense. Anything else is murder.
    Again, Christains have not always been so pure in their criteria. Not only have they included doctors, but the Klan has often killed actual innocent. And if we go back further, we can trace a ton of evil under the Christian banner.

    Again, this is about the continued lumping of all in one when in reality there are differences in practice and sins. Not all Muslims are "radical" anymore than all Christians are.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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