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Thread: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Lack of education does play a role, as does religion.
    But both alone do not cause terrorism. Politics tends to polarize people for a reason and is usually the trigger for someones conversion to the radical side.

    I mean, who kills themselves by saying "Verse .... says you must kill this .... because God commands it"
    Doesn't work nearly as well as "Those in US and UK are killing your brothers and sisters in .... raping or stealing oil, your sacrifice will be noted down. You will be a hero blah blah ..." something like that tends to be more effective.
    It can certainly be a trigger, but I guess what I'm getting at is that it's not really the "but-for" cause for most of this. Even without a particular political situation, many of the people who resort to terrorism would nevertheless be involved in some other way. But for oppression/poverty/religious extremism, that wouldn't usually be the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It is most certainly a complex and coupled system. But I think a lot of contention comes from the fact that there are a few willing to blame the whole of it on religion and religion alone. It's not just a religious thing. Certainly it's an important element, especially given the theocratic tendencies of the area. Theocracies corrupt religion faster than anything else. I think what some people want to impress is that it's not just a religious thing, it's not just being Muslim which influences this. Places with the most oppression and least amount of access to a system to combat it are going to be more likely to engage in terrorism than other places. There's no simple formula, but that also means there is rarely only one root cause.
    This is all true, and I completely understand the desire to defend something from the sweeping generalizations of an angry group of people. I'm just pointing out that the existence of the political issues doesn't correlate to the incidence of terrorism at anywhere near the level that other factors do.
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Two wrongs make a right?
    Nope, 911 was wrong, but let me say this a third time, since you are refusing to read it and debate it honestly - There are hundreds of 911 families who believe that putting the Islamic Cultural Center where it is is the right thing to do.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Most Muslim activists and Militants, are immoderately stupid, and it seems they just can't help themselves.

    If these people would just say that they understand the feelings of the majority of Americans, that they can see the other point of view and will build it somewhere else, they would have that bridge of good will they claim they seek. But this they cannot do because, in actual fact, it is not part of their agenda..

    It was said years ago, about Muslims in Europe, that if they shut up and don't get crazy, they will soon control Western Europe in a couple of generations just through their birth rates alone.. But this they were unable to do.

    Soon they will push too far here, as they are doing with this multimillion dollar middle finger salute to America, and Americans will start fighting back.

    We should just quietly say No, and let things return to some sort of normal. Going ahead with it while over 70% of Americans are against it is not a wise thing. If 70% of Americans are hateful bigots, as many Muslims claim, perhaps Muslims should congregate in Islamic run countries where they can enjoy personal freedoms away from any forms of bigotry whatsoever.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Nope, 911 was wrong, but let me say this a third time, since you are refusing to read it and debate it honestly - There are hundreds of 911 families who believe that putting the Islamic Cultural Center where it is is the right thing to do.
    You have the Stats for that claim, Danarhea, or are you talking a Musllims word for it? What are the statistics?

    And, lest you need reminding, people from all over the world were killed in that attack. Did you talk with all these families?

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It can certainly be a trigger, but I guess what I'm getting at is that it's not really the "but-for" cause for most of this. Even without a particular political situation, many of the people who resort to terrorism would nevertheless be involved in some other way. But for oppression/poverty/religious extremism, that wouldn't usually be the case.




    This is all true, and I completely understand the desire to defend something from the sweeping generalizations of an angry group of people. I'm just pointing out that the existence of the political issues doesn't correlate to the incidence of terrorism at anywhere near the level that other factors do.
    In the case of Islamism, poverty does not play a role. It is all about religion, and why poverty is even mentioned seems odd.

    You should spend some time on Islamic websites to read what they say about Americans, democracy, and their own religious ambitions and learn from them. Reading only what's in the American media will not advance your knowledge all that much. Get it from the strong horse's mouth.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In the case of Islamism, poverty does not play a role. It is all about religion, and why poverty is even mentioned seems odd.

    You should spend some time on Islamic websites to read what they say about Americans, democracy, and their own religious ambitions and learn from them. Reading only what's in the American media will not advance your knowledge all that much. Get it from the strong horse's mouth.
    It's frequently argued that poverty plays a role, though the importance of its impact has been questioned. There's plenty of literature on this.

    poverty terrorism - Google Scholar
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's frequently argued that poverty plays a role, though the importance of its impact has been questioned. There's plenty of literature on this.

    poverty terrorism - Google Scholar
    While it might be argued that poverty plays a role there is no evidence.

    If you are an American you've probably heard of the Great Depression.. Was terrorism higher during that period? Were the crime rates higher than when Americans had more money? I don't think so.

    Given that these individuals weren't all born psychotic, it's ignorance and brainwashing that has everything to do with it.

    I've spent some time in quite poor countries and heard of no terrorism whatsoever.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's a bit more complicated than "They hate us for our freedoms". BTW, on an aside, I've notice that most people who repeat that mantra are also the ones who support gross government growth and interference even in our personal lives. But hypocrisy aside, no one is saying we can't defend ourselves. Nor that the terrorists should not reap negative consequences for their actions. What is being said, however, is that this is a complex situation and there are several factors. One of which has been the overall aggressive interventionist policies pursued by the West. In order to elicit proper change, we have to understand our actions and the consequences of those actions. If not, we are doomed to repeat the cycle. Ignorance is no excuse.
    But, at the end of the day, you place the blame for Islamic terrorism on everyone but the Islamic terrorists. No matter what semantics you use, that's what you end up saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're right, they don't have to. However, their reluctance to do so doesn't do well for their credibility.
    Except your opinion, in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing aside from being ill-informed. Why would the Muslim world (or even one Muslim) care what you think?

    You have a confirmation bias a mile wide, you dont actually CARE what anyone says. Nothing any of us say will change your mind.

    Muslims have no room to cry, for getting a bad wrap, when they consistantly refuse to denounce the ideology that motivates Islamic terrorism.
    Again, are you deaf? I've repeated this I have NO IDEA how many times, Muslims are under no obligation to denounce perverted forms of their religion.
    Last edited by Hoplite; 08-31-10 at 09:11 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Muslims launch ad to fight 'fear-mongering'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    Except your opinion, in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing aside from being ill-informed. Why would the Muslim world (or even one Muslim) care what you think?

    You have a confirmation bias a mile wide, you dont actually CARE what anyone says. Nothing any of us say will change your mind.

    Again, are you deaf? I've repeated this I have NO IDEA how many times, Muslims are under no obligation to denounce perverted forms of their religion.
    Again with the PC retort? You hands gotta come up with some better than that. I've been hearing that crap since September 12th, 2001.

    Again, are you deaf? I've repeated this I have NO IDEA how many times, Muslims are under no obligation to denounce perverted forms of their religion.
    But, white folks, especially southerners fall under a different standard? That's what I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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