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Thread: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It would boost direct consumer spending, which is what we are wanting.
    Remember that it isn't $10k per person but $10k per family, which doesn't make it as much as you think.
    Besides this being a silly idea. What would the money be spent on. Recent expeience shows either paying down debt or consumer products mainly helping the Chinese economy.

    Not to mention you re just stealing money from future generations to make this group feel better, pretty selfish.

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    If you gave 50% of wage earners 10k, you'd have a situation of too much money chasing too few goods. Inflation. Long term effects would be caused by "Where did this money magically come from? More borrowing? Just printed for fun?"
    That's a bit fuzzy. An $8 trillion spending spree is overkill. But HG's concept is correct, not to mention impeccable timing given current long term interest rates.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Besides this being a silly idea. What would the money be spent on. Recent expeience shows either paying down debt or consumer products mainly helping the Chinese economy.

    Not to mention you re just stealing money from future generations to make this group feel better, pretty selfish.
    Poor people spend money, doesn't matter if some of it goes to foreign made products as American businesses get a nice cut off the top, it isn't about making low income people better but stimulating the economy.

    I don't like these things but I'm not pretending to believe that the American government will magically stop redistributing income.
    If my choices are 1. crazy pet projects designed by politicans to stimulate the economy or 2. creating a direct consumer stimulus, I'll choose 2.
    It's more effective than 1.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Let me explain so not to miss anything important.

    When an economy is expanding, tax receipts (naturally) increase. When an economy is shrinking, tax receipts (naturally) decrease. During a period of shrinking tax receipts, spending as a whole begins to decelerate creating even greater downward growth prospects. Unless..... someone begins spending. That someone was the federal government; in a half assed attempt to minimize unemployment. Half assed? Why? Because the stimulus (as i have said from Jan 2009) was about half the size needed to meet the presidents prediction(s). It is pretty certain that without another stimulus package of equal or greater magnitude (along with total infrastructure focus), the US economy will slip back into recession within 6-9 months as global stimulus fades.

    If private business was spending, there would be no need for fiscal stimulus.

    Tax increases are necessary to make up the deficit spending required by government because the private sector was unwilling to step up when needed.
    Taking on that much of a greater debt load will not make things better, the US is in danger of losing it's AAA credit rating, we're seeing concerted efforts to replace the dollar as the currency of trade, international investment in the US through the form of treasury securities are drying up, all because of the dismal long term economic outlook, the biggest problem of which is our enormous debt load.

    The private sector needs stability looking forward, to much is up in the air right now.
    Last edited by damianvincent; 08-31-10 at 02:07 PM.
    The Obama Deficit

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If private business was spending, there would be no need for fiscal stimulus.

    Tax increases are necessary to make up the deficit spending required by government because the private sector was unwilling to step up when needed.
    Dude, the Private sector is holding back cause of impending new taxes, regulations and demands from Washington. Cap and Trade, yeah that passes it will hit EVERY business, this Obamacare mess? Impending new expenses. The Bush Tax Cuts expiring? More expenses. CO2 Regulation from the EPA? MORE cost.

    Businesses respond poorly to added expenses. And Gov't can't fix that with it's own spending.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    That's a bit fuzzy. An $8 trillion spending spree is overkill. But HG's concept is correct, not to mention impeccable timing given current long term interest rates.
    It's horribly shortsighted and negligent.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Besides this being a silly idea. What would the money be spent on. Recent expeience shows either paying down debt or consumer products mainly helping the Chinese economy.
    Depends on income really. If a wealthy person (someone who is very liquid) is given $10k, then you are correct the money is more likely to be saved. Yet if a person is poor, they are more likely to spend every drop of that $10k within a month.

    Not to mention you re just stealing money from future generations to make this group feel better, pretty selfish.
    This statement becomes true only if other nations are the primary holders of public debt. They are not....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    The gold-plated credit rating of the United States — an article of faith across America and, indeed, around the world — may be at risk in coming years as the nation copes with its growing debts.

    The gold-plated credit rating of the United States — an article of faith across America and, indeed, around the world — may be at risk in coming years as the nation copes with its growing debts.

    That sobering assessment, issued Monday by Moody’s Investors Service, provided a reminder that even Aaa-rated United States Treasury bonds, supposedly the safest of safe investments, could be downgraded one day if Washington failed to manage the federal debt.

    Moody’s said the United States and other major Western nations, particularly Britain, have moved “substantially” closer to losing their gilt-edged ratings. The ratings are “stable,” but “their ‘distance-to-downgrade’ has in all cases substantially diminished,” the credit ratings agency said.

    A downgrade would affect more than American pride. The bigger risk would be to the country’s ability to keep borrowing money on extremely favorable terms, and therefore to keep spending more money than it takes in from tax revenue.

    Last edited by damianvincent; 08-31-10 at 02:10 PM.
    The Obama Deficit

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's horribly shortsighted and negligent.
    Said with such confidence and analysis
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Calls for 'Full-Scale Attack' to Revive Struggling Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by damianvincent View Post
    The gold-plated credit rating of the United States — an article of faith across America and, indeed, around the world — may be at risk in coming years as the nation copes with its growing debts.

    The gold-plated credit rating of the United States — an article of faith across America and, indeed, around the world — may be at risk in coming years as the nation copes with its growing debts.

    That sobering assessment, issued Monday by Moody’s Investors Service, provided a reminder that even Aaa-rated United States Treasury bonds, supposedly the safest of safe investments, could be downgraded one day if Washington failed to manage the federal debt.

    Moody’s said the United States and other major Western nations, particularly Britain, have moved “substantially” closer to losing their gilt-edged ratings. The ratings are “stable,” but “their ‘distance-to-downgrade’ has in all cases substantially diminished,” the credit ratings agency said.

    A downgrade would affect more than American pride. The bigger risk would be to the country’s ability to keep borrowing money on extremely favorable terms, and therefore to keep spending more money than it takes in from tax revenue.

    Explain to all of us the current situation regarding long term interest rates.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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