• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson

That last one....Why, who would be hating on the Muslims? I can't get a straight answer from others.

According to the article, I was expecting to see a picture of the KKK, cuz you know we are all just backward, white, redneck, right wing racists down here in the south.....


j-mac

All those white, southern, Christian, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic males that hate Obama, not because of his policies, but because of the color of his skin and because they just aren't smart enough to understand him. That's who.

I'll laugh my ass off, if it's discovered that two hard pipe hittin' brothers, with a can of gas and a book of matches, were helping the owner of the construction company with a little insurance fraud.
 
For God's sake man, no one thinks you are tough enough to talk like that in real life, so stop it already, you're just offensive.


j-mac

It's not tough talk, it's merely reality. And yet another accusation from you that you probably can't back up. Less you know me in real life; then perhaps. But doesn't seem likely. As I said, you made accusations of my intent and what I think. Something absolutely retarded like I think only Americans can be labeled as terrorists. You can't back it up, you've got nothing. Now all you have here are snide little comments like "I see" blah blah blah. Or "you're not tough enough" crap. If that's all you got, you got nothing. And that's reality. Be pissed at it all you want, ain't gonna change reality.
 
It's not tough talk, it's merely reality. And yet another accusation from you that you probably can't back up. Less you know me in real life; then perhaps. But doesn't seem likely. As I said, you made accusations of my intent and what I think. Something absolutely retarded like I think only Americans can be labeled as terrorists. You can't back it up, you've got nothing. Now all you have here are snide little comments like "I see" blah blah blah. Or "you're not tough enough" crap. If that's all you got, you got nothing. And that's reality. Be pissed at it all you want, ain't gonna change reality.

Nope, I'll put it together, but for now I'm bored with you, so on to other things.


j-mac
 
All those white, southern, Christian, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic males that hate Obama, not because of his policies, but because of the color of his skin and because they just aren't smart enough to understand him. That's who.


Ding, ding, ding!!!!!! There we go, if only others were this honest. ;)


j-mac
 
Nope, I'll put it together, but for now I'm bored with you, so on to other things.


j-mac

i.e "I have no argument left, I can't back up my accusations, you didn't say exactly as I wanted to say so I'll let this simmer on the back burner and pull it out again in the future where once again it will be highly unlikely that I can back anything up, and after I make the accusations and have no logical or coherent argument to back it up; I will once again run away,"

Noted.
 
Ding, ding, ding!!!!!! There we go, if only others were this honest. ;)


j-mac

So you were just looking for the horribly partisan answer. Why couldn't it just be some nut job dude? Is everyone who is so emotionally opposed to Islam or the creation of new mosques white? Kinda racist, eh?
 
All those white, southern, Christian, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic males that hate Obama, not because of his policies, but because of the color of his skin and because they just aren't smart enough to understand him. That's who.

what if, just what if, this is the case?
 
Some take offence that a rush to judgement was made - it must be racist bigots against Muslims. :shrug:
 
Then you think only Americans can be labeled as terrorists! OMG you hate America!

lol, yeppers. i was just wondering of anyone would have the balls to defend them?
 
Some take offence that a rush to judgement was made - it must be racist bigots against Muslims. :shrug:

I think that many people have said that it's possible that it was racist bigots against Muslims. Certainly, that does stand as valid probability. Along with insurance fraud and other likely probabilities. We'll see what the investigation yields.
 
Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson - CBS News

Is anyone truly surprised by this? Sadly, I can say I am not. When you appeal to peoples' baser instincts, someone will feel compelled to act as if they had support to commit this crime.

I am going to stay out of all the partisan bickering in this. It's stupid in the absence of enough information. I just want to comment on one thing: the only person to blame for this event is the person or people who committed it.
 
I don't think folks will be able to hide behind "it was just an accident" or "someone set the fire to claim the property damage insurance" for much longer. The anti-Muslim/Islam hate isn't just confined to the NYC or Murfreesboro, TN ICC's anymore. Read this article from YahooNews.com and you'll see why. To deny it and make any other claim is not only foolish, but absord!

This argument doesn't make any sense. "There are a few other isolated instances where people have done illegal or otherwise offensive **** in response to a proposed mosque. That means that it would be absurd to point out that any other incident could possibly be the product of anything other than hatred."

Well, sure there could be other motives behind these attacks, but none that are reasonable to warrant what's happening out there. We're not talking about someone getting upset 'cause they got cut-off in the parking lot or a proclaimed Christian got mad because some Muslim claimed that Christ was just another prophet or a Rabi. Those are issues thealogians are more equipped to address anyway.

No, the issue here is hatred with a big dose of fear! This linked article (pulled from within the last article I posted (#47)) goes into further detail on just how out of hand these such incidents have gotten. No one is rightfully debating how American-Muslims feel or if any of them would like to see Sharia Law implimented in this country or if they even believe in it fully. Instead, what I'm starting to see is a push away from the sensativity issue that was originally the basis behind not wanting the ICC near Ground Zero to now being, "We don't want your kind here. Take your Sharia Law back to wherever where you come from." What kind of BS is that? The anger, fear, hatred is wrongfully being directed at American-Muslims - American citizens who have lived, worked, contributed, paid taxes, prayed, worship and been a part of their communities for years - long before 9/11, long before Obama became President.

I'm all for investing the matter where this arson attempt in TN is concerned and awaiting the facts of the matter, and if the responsible party is ever apprehended you persecute him to fullest extent of the law, but even you - as level headed as they come - can't deny the pattern of hatred brought on by unsubstantiated fear against American-Muslims that has begun to emerge.

A cab drive is attacked and for what? Because his passenger believed him to be some Muslim extremist/terrorist. Did he talk to the cab driver beforehand? Was the cabbie given a chance to express his views? Did his passenger know for sure that the cabbie was a Muslim WITH extremist views such as those many are now claiming to fear?

Thirty years of relative peace in the neighborhood and then suddenly someone just happens to set fire to construction equipment that happens to be on the very site where groundbreaking recently took place to build a ICC where residents recently protested against its construction. Coincidence? I don't think so. But we'll let the investigation continue and see what comes of it.

To think that these attacks are anything other than what they are - vile and filled with hatred toward a group of people who are feared based on their religious ideology is to ignore their basic human and constitutional right to live peacefully under the protection of the law and to worship as they please under the Constitution and in accordance with our county's values. To deny them these rights is criminal. And as we can see, that is exactly what's beginning to happen all across this country....criminal activity against the innocent. This is wrong, people!

If you're really concerned about what American-Muslims think, what they do, what their political views are, why not just ask them instead of attacking them.
 
Last edited:
You know, this is similar to something that happened in Texas back in the 1960's. A black man was chained, weighted down, and then thrown into a lake. When those who did it were caught they said "We didn't do it. It's just like a nigger. Steal more chains than they can swim with". Your post, seeking to deny the obvious, reminded me of that story.

Wait wait wait...

Now I would say the far more likely scenario is someone being an idiot and burning this place for horribly bigoted and wrong reasons.

However...

Are you literally so frothing in your desire to cry out RACISM and JIM CROW that you're seriously trying to suggest that people burning down buildings for insurance payouts is as uncommon and unrealistic of a scenario as people stealing chains and then going for a swim?

REALLY Dana?

First you godwin the thread and then you throw this out? You're a good debater, why not actually show it rather than emotional hyperbolic crap like this?

Whoever did this should be found, tried, and punished. Its irresponsible and wrong, no matter the reasons
 
what if, just what if, this is the case?

Then, they should go to jail for arson. End of story.

Or, do you propose that white, Christian, southern males, that are deemed to be racist, homophobic, islamophobic and hate Obama, because he's black, not because he's inacting ****ed up policies and don't understand him, because they're too stupid, should be put into concentration camps?

No one know what the hell the reason for the torch job is, but the Libbos are certain, without a doubt, that it's a hate crime.

How much perfect could this scenario be? I own a construction company; I have a constract to build a mosque; I'm late on some equipment notes; I burn my equipment, knowing that the PC Libbo in the local government will chompin at the bit to prove it's a hate crime, that the arson investigators won't have the chance to prove that I'd committed insurance fraud.

Yeah, it's perfect!!
 
Last edited:
Then, they should go to jail for arson. End of story.

Or, do you propose that white, Christian, southern males, that are deemed to be racist, homophobic, islamophobic and hate Obama, because he's black, not because he's inacting ****ed up policies and don't understand him, because they're too stupid, should be put into concentration camps?

No one know what the hell the reason for the torch job is, but the Libbos are certain, without a doubt, that it's a hate crime.

How much perfect could this scenario be? I own a construction company; I have a constract to build a mosque; I'm late on some equipment notes; I burn my equipment, knowing that the PC Libbo in the local government will chompin at the bit to prove it's a hate crime, that the arson investigators won't have the chance to prove that I'd committed insurance fraud.

Yeah, it's perfect!!

after all the protesting of said mosque, its not that big of a leap. btw, wtf did i say anything about putting any jackass bigots in a concentration camp? dont put words in my mouth or assume that i would even go that far. plz and thanks!
 
Then, they should go to jail for arson. End of story.

Or, do you propose that white, Christian, southern males, that are deemed to be racist, homophobic, islamophobic and hate Obama, because he's black, not because he's inacting ****ed up policies and don't understand him, because they're too stupid, should be put into concentration camps?

No one know what the hell the reason for the torch job is, but the Libbos are certain, without a doubt, that it's a hate crime.

But would you say, particularly taking into account the current environment involving Muslims and the heated controversies around building a mosque, that it is a valid probability?
 
But would you say, particularly taking into account the current environment involving Muslims and the heated controversies around building a mosque, that it is a valid probability?

prolly not.
 
Why do you guys keep doing that? Liberal -vs- Conservative? Why can't this simply be a right -vs- wrong issue? Because that's exactly where it is as far as I'm concerned. My political views are cast far aside when it comes to people who are unjustly persecuted just because they may be or believe or worship differently than I do. It's got absolutely nothing to do with my political views, none whatsoever. And frankly, I've grown so tired of every Conservative who makes this charge whenever someone disagrees with a matter.

It's not always about politics. Sometimes, it's just about doing what's right.
 
Coming from our resident fire inspector, this has instant credibility.

No, not that I'm aware of....the search continues...

If it's a hate crime, then why just burn the equipment? Why not burn the actual structure? Sooner, or later, common sense has to come into play. But, I know, the leftists just can't let this, "hate crime", go without notice. A frame of mind that consistantly negates common sense.

Because there was no structure to burn at the site. From the article in the OP, they had just broke ground and were preparing the site for construction. Nothing's been built on it yet. Still, to be clear, it is easy to view this incident as insurance fraud perpetrated by arson, and on the surface it shouldn't be ruled out. But based on recent events, I doubt that is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if this case turned out to be arson perpetrated by hate, but I'm willing to accept the possibility that it could easily be an insurance related issue just as it could've been some punk kids out for kicks.
 
Ockham said:
Actually - since this is one occurance (as opposed to multiple mosques) the most common and simplest motivation for arson is insurance fraud. Now, if we were talking about multiple mosques as a target of arson like the 9 churches in Texas one may say this is a serial arsonist or, possibly someone who's anti-Muslim. The more I think about one mosque being burned down as predicated on an anti-muslim bigot ... I don't think there's facts to back that up.


Two years ago, several men broke into the Islamic Center of Columbia, about 30 miles (48 kilometers) southwest of Murfreesboro, and torched it with molotov cocktails, stealing a stereo system and painting swastikas and "White Power" on the front of the building.

Opponents fight new mosques in U.S. heartland - USATODAY.com


Just pointing out that this wasn't just one occurrence.
 
I'm not terribly concerned with whether or not this was a hate crime. It's concerning and the people who are responsible should be brought to justice of course, but the more important thing is whether or not this signals a growing trend in America. Are more and more people beginning to believe that Muslims are not welcome to live in our communities and practice their religion? Sarah Palin is fueling the intolerance and the Lieutenant Governor of Tenn. said this recently: "Now, you could even argue whether being a Muslim is actually a religion, or is it a nationality, way of life, cult, whatever you want to call it."

I think that the reason there's so much of this garbage going around is because Republican politicians want to capitalize on hard right anger toward Islam in order to get their base to show up to the polls in November. The opposition of gay marriage just isn't as attractive as it used to be, so convincing conservatives that Democrats are building a trojan horse for Muslim extremist infiltration of America is becoming popular. And the media loves to cover it because anger and religious war is oh so interesting.

I agree that the people who commit these crimes are solely responsible. But for the pundits and politicians who manufacture and inspire anti-Muslim sentiment? We've got to hold them accountable and get rid of them.
 
Holy Crap! Why is it so hard to get you to type out a clear answer? Why are you dancing around this question? Gheeze. Just answer, cuz we all know what you really mean.


j-mac

You have a hard time with anything that doesn't meet your partisan and stereotypical expectation. If you want to understand, you want answers like you have received. If you're just playing partisan stupid, you want answers like what you ding ding dinged. I have always wondered why you don't like honest answers as much as you like to paint answers as something they are not.
 
Coming from our resident fire inspector, this has instant credibility.

Except it was construction equipment - not a building. The site had just begun. The only person who could collect would be the owner of the equipment and not the Mosque or their funders.

That's why the insurance fraud thing doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

If you want my guess, it was punk-ass kids. But they felt inspired by the negative vibe being created.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom