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Thread: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Did we ever "win" in Iraq?

    We're not fighting a war of attrition.
    Agreed. What is winning in the first place? In Iraq. we've mostly played referee. Last time I checked, referees don't win.

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Agreed. What is winning in the first place? In Iraq. we've mostly played referee. Last time I checked, referees don't win.
    We left a lot unfinished, that's for certain - and over the yeras more 'fails' will come to light.
    If things are going differently in Afghanistan I hope it's for the better.
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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq - latimes.com

    As the rest of the world have been saying for ages... but I love this part.



    or




    Talk about incompetence... but guessing the Bush officials in charge got promoted for this.
    Look, the Bush administration was incompetent, I will grant you that. But Bush has not been in power for almost 2 years. Obama has had all this time to correct things, but he hasn't. This makes him just as culpable as Bush was, but since Bush is no longer in power, it is all on Obama's lap now. At this time, it IS Obama's fault.
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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Look, the Bush administration was incompetent, I will grant you that. But Bush has not been in power for almost 2 years. Obama has had all this time to correct things, but he hasn't. This makes him just as culpable as Bush was, but since Bush is no longer in power, it is all on Obama's lap now. At this time, it IS Obama's fault.
    it's in his lap now, but the difference is like the differnece between the person who destoryed a house and the person who has to address those damages. Not only are the expectations different, but factually, what can and can't be done is different. Ending the combat role is a good first step, but not much more. The fact is having invaded in the first place leaves us far less options than many of us would like.

    And while I see Afghanistan as different and more understandable, as there is a concern there, I don't think Obama has had any better ability to clarify the mission and rightly chart the best course of action. It too will likely end less satisfying than many hope for.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq - latimes.com

    As the rest of the world have been saying for ages... but I love this part.



    or




    Talk about incompetence... but guessing the Bush officials in charge got promoted for this.
    Please list everyone in the rest of the world by name that said this.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Look, the Bush administration was incompetent, I will grant you that. But Bush has not been in power for almost 2 years. Obama has had all this time to correct things, but he hasn't. This makes him just as culpable as Bush was, but since Bush is no longer in power, it is all on Obama's lap now. At this time, it IS Obama's fault.
    I disagree fully. The aura of corruption in Iraq is two fold.. Iraqi born and American born. The occupation administration was corrupt as hell both politically and financially from the start. On top of that the people the US trusted (and got false intel from) and gave the country over too, were just as corrupt if not more corrupt that the regime that they replaced.

    If we look at the US occupation forces, it was designed from the get go, to be utterly corrupt with no bid contracts to "friendly companies", only hiring non Iraqi's for the most part to do the jobs and a total lack of transparency and accountability. Many out right criminals who exploited the void and lack of transparency have gone scott free from prosecution and often (not always) they were "well connected" to the right type of politicians so to say. We have seen TV investigations outing special Bush pioneers who got contracts to provide material to the US forces or reconstruction and basically scammed the US government and were never prosecuted.

    Now on the Iraq side... corruption is part of life in the middle east (not only Iraqi) and always has been. Fighting that with "western" ideas and means, is frankly idiotic since it is such part of society. Curbing it as much as possible is the only way, but it does not help that the people the US put into power were just as corrupt as Saddam if not more. There was the Iraqi intelligence minister that stole over a billion dollars and is now hiding in Europe and other parts of the world. Then there was the guy who exposed him.. last I heard he was till alive, but living in exile since the government that employed him to sniff out corruption have an arrest warrant out on him for... you got it.. corruption. As far as we know his only crime was to expose corruption among high ranking officials... he just exposed the "wrong officials" and it pissed off the powerful ones.

    Point is Iraq was and is a cest pool when it comes to corruption, and where the US stayed or not would not change much. The only thing that would change, would the billions of US taxpayer money being lost due to US corruption at every level.

    While you can blame Obama for many things, some legit.. some not, this is in no way his fault as he was handed a catch 22 situation. Could he have gone after the corrupt American's? Sure, but to be brutally frank,.. because of lack of transparency and records, convicting them would be hard, and it would end up in a partisan cluster**** because many of them have connections to the Republican party and it could potentially tear the country apart and no one wants to see that happening.
    PeteEU

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Please list everyone in the rest of the world by name that said this.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/wo...ruct.html?_r=1 from 2006

    Asia Times - Asia's most trusted news source for the Middle East from 2004

    Iraq Occupation Ran On Policy of Corruption, Witnesses Say - The NewStandard from 2007

    there are plenty of links and news stories out there.. just google it.. not my fault you bought the propaganda of the Bush administration and still believe it.
    PeteEU

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    bravo for barry!

    but if ANYTHING goes wrong over there...

    the msm are SETTING HIM UP

    washingtonpost.com

    My Way News - FACT CHECK: Is Iraq combat really over for US?

    and they are prepared to HAMMER him

    it's almost impossible NOT to see so many moves ahead

    encroachment by shiite iran, al qaeda in iraq, parliamentary paralysis, political collapse, sectarian violence, even civil war...

    this is "not the right moment for a victory lap"

    what he has managed to do, here, is to "raise expectations"

    our presidential putz better hope his affable, gaffe-able, laughable veep is correct when he so cavalierly declares of the iraqis, "they'll be fine"

    because if they're not...

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    and even the most ogling obamite has to see the disaster unfolding in afghanistan, OBAMA's WAR, direct consequence of his executive incompetence

    his collaborator, karzai, is a kook AND a crook

    the enemy we seek, al qaeda, aren't even in afghanistan

    our "friends" in pakistan are selling us out to the taliban

    his withdrawal deadline of next july gives us no chance of success---winter is coming, we're bogged down in helmand, delayed in kandahar...

    we're essentially gonna have a few months in the spring to "win" whatever the heck WAR the wunderkind has ESCALATED

    our soldiers are still operating under ridiculously unrealistic roe's, rules of engagement, as if written by some montessori

    TWENTY ONE american soldiers have been KILLED over there in the last 4 days, bringing august's tragic toll to 56, after 66 fell in june and 60 in july (the 2 highest months on record, in this longest war in our history)

    he opposed the surge in iraq which made possible his victory lap last nite, then he adopted the same strategy in these impossible mountains on the moon, which is madness

    are you sure this guy knows what he's doing?

    afghanistan, OBAMA's WAR, is gonna kill this president, as well as more of our heroes and heroines than any of us can stand

    worry

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    Re: A U.S. 'legacy of waste' in Iraq

    [QUOTE=zimmer;1058953663]Oh my... this is what happens after having a massive OD of Kool Aid.

    They will be paying the price?
    Do you realize 1 million people died under sanctions and Maddie Albright claimed it was "worth the cost"?
    Do you realize higher estimates put the dead at 1 million as a result f the invasion now?

    Do you realize they won't have rape rooms, be throwing people off building and won't be murdered because the leader feels threatened?
    Do you realize that during the more heated years of the occupation torture was far more widespread than ever on saddam

    Do you realize the Iraqi's are benefiting from the defeat of Saddam and the neutering of terrorists that flocked to the area after the war?
    In exchange for thousands of homegrown ones?

    Do you realize it is now a democracy with a constitution, not a hell hole of evil run by a tyrant and his sick sons and cling-ons?
    I guess thats nice. But I dont knw what star trek has to do with this.

    Do you realize he used WMD, had them and Hans Blix reported to the UN he lied about what he had and they believed he was in possession of WMD?
    Do you realize his WMDs were supplied by the US to fight Iran? And that he had no nuclear capabilities and was no threat to US and the war was based on lies.

    Phew... what they teach kids in school these days.
    Education may alleviate your political psychosis.

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