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Thread: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If the US and UN are ready to throw Arizona under the bus, when are they going to do the same for Mexico and Switzerland, countries with much harsher immigration policies?
    Won't happen...... they aren't as mean as the US is.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    America's court system -- the most fair, free and transparent in all the world -- isn't perfect. But that doesn't mean its power should be usurped by jurists 8,000 miles away who are not elected, selected or directed by anyone responsible to American voters.

    Yet that's exactly what the International Court of Justice (ICJ) tried to do recently in a case involving two brothers, both German nationals. The pair had been convicted of robbing a bank and killing a 63-year-old bank employee in Arizona, and both were executed by state officials in 1999, despite a last-minute call by the Court to stay one of the executions until it could review the case.

    In a ruling on the case issued on June 27, the ICJ said the United States should have allowed the brothers to contact German consulate officials after their arrest. They also said that ICJ rulings were binding on the United States and that American law had to be altered to conform with the country's international obligations.
    Except in this case, the ICJ was just noting the obligation the U.S. has to allow consulate/embassy personnel to contact their citizens if charged or undergoing court procedures that is borne out of a treaty the U.S. is party to and it itself insists on when Americans are imprisoned in foreign countries. This is not the only time this has happened in the U.S. and it jeopardizes the ability of the U.S. to gain access to U.S. citizens in foreign countries. Texas did the same with Mexican nationals. This is a violation of U.S. treaty commitments.
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And the UN never persuades the US into doing anything?



    United States and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Has the UN ever encouraged foreign aid? Involvement in distant wars?



    Capitalism Magazine - The UN's International Kangaroo Court
    I hope this isn't your evidence. Seriously. because they complain, like they did when we invaded iraq, in no way means we do anything. Nor when they present an argument someone here buys and takes to heart mean they usurped us. It is illogical to make the leap you appear to be making.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I hope this isn't your evidence. Seriously. because they complain, like they did when we invaded iraq, in no way means we do anything. Nor when they present an argument someone here buys and takes to heart mean they usurped us. It is illogical to make the leap you appear to be making.

    Here we go typical Boo....come on man, answer the questions he asked. No one cares about the other distraction you posted above.

    Here I'll repeat them for you....

    1.Does the UN ever persuade the US into doing anything?

    and

    2. Has the UN ever encouraged foreign aid? Involvement in distant wars?

    Now answer them or sit down.


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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Here we go typical Boo....come on man, answer the questions he asked. No one cares about the other distraction you posted above.

    Here I'll repeat them for you....

    1.Does the UN ever persuade the US into doing anything?

    and

    2. Has the UN ever encouraged foreign aid? Involvement in distant wars?

    Now answer them or sit down.


    j-mac
    J, I did answer.

    1) persuading is not usurping. Arguments come from all over. A thinking person is swayed by a good argument. An idiot closes his mind to an argument because it isn't from his "team."

    2) Again, encouragement isn't usurping. A completely different thing. Remember, they argued and tried to encourage us not to invade Iraq. how did that go?

    Now, I know you want an answer that supports your belief. And like always, you see anything that is not that as not an an answer. I'm sorry tha's so. But answers are often more complete than you like, and frankly won't likely ever fit into the mindless stereotype so often looked for.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, I did answer.
    No, I don't think you did, at least not in any clear way.

    1) persuading is not usurping. Arguments come from all over.
    When was the last time an argument was had in the UN in favor of America, or Israel for that matter?

    A thinking person is swayed by a good argument. An idiot closes his mind to an argument because it isn't from his "team."
    I see, so those that disagree with the UN are either "non thinking individuals" or "Idiots" is that it? Really? Name calling is all you got?

    2) Again, encouragement isn't usurping. A completely different thing. Remember, they argued and tried to encourage us not to invade Iraq. how did that go?
    As I remember, they backed our resolution to use force and a time line. Isn't that so?

    Now, I know you want an answer that supports your belief. And like always, you see anything that is not that as not an an answer.
    No, I'd like for one time, just once, any of you internationalist to say in clear, unambiguous language what you'd like to see in terms of UN authority, and power in the world, and not weasel out of it when you get your backs against the wall for saying what you say.

    But answers are often more complete than you like, and frankly won't likely ever fit into the mindless stereotype so often looked for.
    Again with the name calling? Do you think that makes you look anything but foolish?

    How about you explain the premise behind the Land of the Sea treaty, and why you support it?

    j-mac
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I don't think you did, at least not in any clear way.



    When was the last time an argument was had in the UN in favor of America, or Israel for that matter?



    I see, so those that disagree with the UN are either "non thinking individuals" or "Idiots" is that it? Really? Name calling is all you got?



    As I remember, they backed our resolution to use force and a time line. Isn't that so?



    No, I'd like for one time, just once, any of you internationalist to say in clear, unambiguous language what you'd like to see in terms of UN authority, and power in the world, and not weasel out of it when you get your backs against the wall for saying what you say.



    Again with the name calling? Do you think that makes you look anything but foolish?

    How about you explain the premise behind the Land of the Sea treaty, and why you support it?

    j-mac
    Yes, I gave a clear aswer. And it makes no difference at all whether the UN argued for or against the US or Isreal. No matter what they argue for or against, that doesn't mean the usurped us here at home.

    And no, you missed the point about non-thinking, once again. I don't know if there is a reading comprehension problem here or a partisan blind spot. The point with people can be pusuaded by a good argument. being so persuaded doesn't equal usurping. Thinking people listen, think, and make judgements based on the argument, not the team.

    And no, they did not back our resoultion to invade iraq. Coalition of the willing specifically means outside the UN.

    As for what you'd like t see, I suggest two things;

    1) Ask the right question.

    2) Stop looking for validation of your skewed view of the world. Have some self esteem for pete's sake.

    I would also add to stop trying to label people. I don't consider myself an internationalist. I consider myself a thinking person who knows what usurp means. A person that knows what it means to sign an agreement. A person who knows right from wrong. I know this doesn't fit neatly designed partisan stereotypes, which may be why you see any answer not in your narrow partisan view as not being an answer.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Joe, Joe, Joe....I must really have touched a nerve here to have you insult me so....In any case you left out the most important question here....I'll repeat it for you.

    How about you explain the premise behind the Land of the Sea treaty, and why you support it?


    j-mac
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Except in this case, the ICJ was just noting the obligation the U.S. has to allow consulate/embassy personnel to contact their citizens if charged or undergoing court procedures that is borne out of a treaty the U.S. is party to and it itself insists on when Americans are imprisoned in foreign countries. This is not the only time this has happened in the U.S. and it jeopardizes the ability of the U.S. to gain access to U.S. citizens in foreign countries. Texas did the same with Mexican nationals. This is a violation of U.S. treaty commitments.
    Read the link. It notes the problems with that interpretation of what happened.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Joe, Joe, Joe....I must really have touched a nerve here to have you insult me so....In any case you left out the most important question here....I'll repeat it for you.

    How about you explain the premise behind the Land of the Sea treaty, and why you support it?


    j-mac
    J, just because someone grows weary of the same nonsense over and over again is not a nerve being touched. And I was never asked whether I supported a treaty, but if we sign one, if we sign an agreement, just like when you and I sign agreements, do you think we have no obligation to what we sign? And if I sign a anagreement with you, will you accept me saying your usurping my soverngeny when I don't want to do it?

    Please, stay with the confines of the issue we're addressing. No diversions. No snipe hunts. No silliness.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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