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Thread: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

  1. #31
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You mean it was bigger then the US allowing Saddam to smuggle oil, whiich brought in more money for Saddam than OFF did. What's the critieria for measuring corruption then?
    Let's assume you are correct that black market oil brought in more revenues. Once again, the UN failed, as did our president at the time (Clinton) and the press.

    So yeah, Clinton's Eyes Wide Closed Policy to "keep the peace" added to the problem.

    It's interesting... we had a corrupt president, that fomented an attitude of lies and deceit with every breath he took, and by your own admission, was a player on par or beyond the UN corruption. That is now established thanks to your post.

    All this Eyes Wide Closed, UN corruption and Black Market Oil while the Clinton Administration believed and publicly stated the sanctions were worth the price of 1 million Iraqi's dying. Don't you find that a wee bit disingenuous and hypocritical of The Clintons to claim a million dying is worth the price of sanctions, yet knowing and allowing Saddam to lard up on black market oil money?

    Where were the darling press? The Journolists? That's right... burying news and propagandizing for Clintons misdeeds; Republicans were the evil ones... that was Clinton's war.

    Eventually a price is paid for incompetence and corruption. Someone has to deal with the harsh realities at some point... and that task landed on Bush 43's desk.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 08-31-10 at 06:54 AM.
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    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #32
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Let's assume you are correct that black market oil brought in more revenues. Once again, the UN failed, as did our president at the time (Clinton) and the press.

    So yeah, Clinton's Eyes Wide Closed Policy to "keep the peace" added to the problem.

    It's interesting... we had a corrupt president, that fomented an attitude of lies and deceit with every breath he took, and by your own admission, was a player on par or beyond the UN corruption. That is now established thanks to your post.

    All this Eyes Wide Closed, UN corruption and Black Market Oil while the Clinton Administration believed and publicly stated the sanctions were worth the price of 1 million Iraqi's dying. Don't you find that a wee bit disingenuous and hypocritical of The Clintons to claim a million dying is worth the price of sanctions, yet knowing and allowing Saddam to lard up on black market oil money?

    Where were the darling press? The Journolists? That's right... burying news and propagandizing for Clintons misdeeds; Republicans were the evil ones... that was Clinton's war.

    Eventually a price is paid for incompetence and corruption. Someone has to deal with the harsh realities at some point... and that task landed on Bush 43's desk.

    .
    As we knew about the smuggling, were monitoring, and allowed it ebcause we wanted it, I'm not sure I would call it a failure. it was however sign of how little we actually worried about Saddam. Bush did not have anything concerning Saddam or Iraq "land" on his desk. Instead, you had a fool act the fool and reckless start an unnecessary war, costing thousands upon thousands of lives and billions of dollars. And all for next to nothing.

    Hoorah for Bush!!!!

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    But let's not forget the point. Corru[tion is not limited tothe UN. In fact,the UN is made up of nations, of which we are a part. And we contribute to some of that corruption. What seems to make most American's most angry, it seems to me, is that the UN hasn't always done exactly what we tell them to do. And as we all know, that makes the UN very, very evil.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    The UN sucks, and not because they don't follow our will. On the contrary, the problem is that an international organization tries to usurp our sovereignty. If it was just a peacekeeping organization then I'd probably have a great respect for the organization, but since it is nothing but a tool of the progressive movement I have nothing but disdain for it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The UN sucks, and not because they don't follow our will. On the contrary, the problem is that an international organization tries to usurp our sovereignty. If it was just a peacekeeping organization then I'd probably have a great respect for the organization, but since it is nothing but a tool of the progressive movement I have nothing but disdain for it.
    Our sovereigny has not been usurped in any way. We freely signed agreements, and like any contract, some expect us to honor our agreements. But that is not te same as usurping anyone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Our sovereigny has not been usurped in any way. We freely signed agreements, and like any contract, some expect us to honor our agreements. But that is not te same as usurping anyone.
    Right, the UN never pressures us into doing anything.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Right, the UN never pressures us into doing anything.
    No, they can't pressure us. Seriously, they can't. They couldn't even stop us from invading Iraq.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they can't pressure us. Seriously, they can't. They couldn't even stop us from invading Iraq.
    And the UN never persuades the US into doing anything?

    Conflict between the U.S. and the UN predates the collapse of the Soviet Union. In 1971, the UN adopted Resolution 2758---which effected the admission of the People's Republic of China and the removal of the Republic of China---despite objections by the U.S. government's (see China and the United Nations). The U.S. government changed its own China policy shortly afterward, however, so the conflict between the UN and US foreign policy was short lived.
    United States and the United Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Has the UN ever encouraged foreign aid? Involvement in distant wars?

    America's court system -- the most fair, free and transparent in all the world -- isn't perfect. But that doesn't mean its power should be usurped by jurists 8,000 miles away who are not elected, selected or directed by anyone responsible to American voters.

    Yet that's exactly what the International Court of Justice (ICJ) tried to do recently in a case involving two brothers, both German nationals. The pair had been convicted of robbing a bank and killing a 63-year-old bank employee in Arizona, and both were executed by state officials in 1999, despite a last-minute call by the Court to stay one of the executions until it could review the case.

    In a ruling on the case issued on June 27, the ICJ said the United States should have allowed the brothers to contact German consulate officials after their arrest. They also said that ICJ rulings were binding on the United States and that American law had to be altered to conform with the country's international obligations.
    http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/index.php?news=1176
    Last edited by phattonez; 08-31-10 at 02:16 PM.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #39
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    You may wanna check the math on this, because I could have made a mistake in the calculations, but I was curious, so I looked it up to see if your statement was true. In 2008, the United States contributed around 24% net to the general budget of the UN (http://globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/...esment2007.pdf). In 2009, we ponied up roughly 23% (http://globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/...esment2009.pdf). In 2010, roughly 23.8% ( http://globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/...t_for_2010.pdf).

    Just so we are on the same page, did you mean the largest single contributor? Because in the last two and a half years, we haven't 'paid most of the bills' - we paid a little less than a quarter of them. So if your speculation that the organization would fold is based upon your assumption that the United States was the only contributor, or that our contributions alone totalled up to the majority of the net budget, then you may wish to recind. Either way, we are both engaging in speculation here, so I vote we dismiss the theoretics and move forward with the discussion.
    Thats right. We pay the most. How is that hard to understand?

    I searched those links you provided, and I can't find anywhere within them something that points to the goals of the United Nations being anything other than what I expressed, which is half of what he disagreed with, and which I asked for plainly. However, I did want a source which shows that the United Nations is a 'cesspool' as well, which you put forward in his defense. Let's discuss those, and see where we might agree or disagree with one another.
    Those links prove it is a cesspool. What more do you want?

    I think you and I would both agree that Libya being on the council for human rights is a joke; however, we both realize that the country was democratically elected to be there by the 192 nation general assembly. I disagree with the election, though, as I think Libya has a pretty poor track record when it comes to such things. I think there are other nations with better records that would make fine councilmembers, and I think you'd agree with me there, too.

    Where I think we disagree is on the conclusion. You think this illustrates that the UN is a cesspool, whereas I think it's just a stupid manuever despite it being done democratically. I think this stems from our differences in what we view the UN to be. For me, the UN is a place where countries that disagree can have a platform to discuss those differences between them, and like the link says, facilitate cooperation on international law, human rights, and world peace. Consider the good that organizations like UNICEF, and WHO have done for the citzens of the world, or at least attempted to in good faith. Hardly the mark of a 'cesspool' organization, given their goals.
    You're right. We don't agree. Any organization that would allow such a flagrant human rights abuser on the board for human rights is a cesspool.

    Reading that article, would you REALLY say that they wanted to do nothing, or were limited in what they could actually do? The story said that was only 25 U.N. peacekeepers within five villages occupied by 200 - 400 rebels. While I think both of us agree that we wish there was more that they could do to have prevented such an atrocity, I think we disagree on the conclusion. But I would be curious as to why you come to the conclusion from this that the U.N is a "cesspool". After all, it wasn't the peacekeepers raping these villagers, and they did attempt to help. Is that the mark of a cesspool organization?
    Because they do nothing in face of such atrocity. They simply watch it while pretending to be a force for good. That is why they are a cesspool.

    While we both agree that scandals should be dealt with, would you say that this is reflective on the U.N being a cesspool? I remember the S& L scandal, The Whiskey Ring, Teapot Dome, and Iran-Contra, yet I would hardly call the United States a cesspool. We are a great nation, but we've had our share of scandals.

    Thanks
    There is no larger money scandal in the entire world than oil for food. None. That is why the cesspool label is justified.

    And this isn't one or two incidents. Its a proven pattern of corruption and apathy to those that suffer. Everything this organization is supposed to be against.

    cess·pool (sspl)
    n.
    1. A covered hole or pit for receiving drainage or sewage, as from a house.
    2. A filthy, disgusting, or morally corrupt place.


    We have a winner
    Last edited by texmaster; 08-31-10 at 02:28 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Brewer condemns report to UN mentioning Ariz. law

    I like Boo... me thinks he is a Republican dressing up as a Democrat.
    Boo don't know Didley

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As we (CLINTON) knew about the smuggling, were monitoring, and allowed it ebcause we (CLINTON) wanted it, I'm not sure I would call it a failure. it was however sign of how little we actually worried about Saddam. Bush did not have anything concerning Saddam or Iraq "land" on his desk. Instead, you had a fool act the fool and reckless start an unnecessary war, costing thousands upon thousands of lives and billions of dollars. And all for next to nothing.

    Hoorah for Bush!!!!
    Post 911 the world was introduced to "connect the dots". On 911 they claimed we didn't, now the Libs claim we shouldn't have.
    Make up your ****ing minds.

    Democrats are on record for years warning (during the Clinton years after the Inspectuers got tossed) and then voting to send troops post 911... in the Senate they begged for a second vote because Dems realized how feeble they looked on national defense issues... a 30-year record of hostility does that. Hell, even Hillary spelled it out for Code Pink... citing intel received as she was third mate at the WH... (I think Bill probably preferred the intern over Frauline Shriek).

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But let's not forget the point. Corru[tion is not limited tothe UN. In fact,the UN is made up of nations, of which we are a part. And we contribute to some of that corruption. What seems to make most American's most angry, it seems to me, is that the UN hasn't always done exactly what we tell them to do. And as we all know, that makes the UN very, very evil.
    Well at least you admit the UN is corrupt (you could have added... to the core).
    So, we kow tow on human rights to a corrupt body for upholding the laws of the land and protecting our borders and citizens. That was Jan Brewer's point.

    Thanks Boo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they can't pressure us. Seriously, they can't. They couldn't even stop us from invading Iraq.
    Note to Boo. Bush 43 went in and got their support. Unanimous vote. He gave Saddam one last chance to come clean. As Hans Blix reported... this didn't happen.

    After 12-years, 16 UN resolutions, kicking out weapons inspecteurs de la UN... one last chance after 911 is all that need be set on the table for the Despot to understand. He didn't take the out, and perhaps because he thought he bought off the UN. He pokered and lost.

    And no, the UN can't stop us, but Democrats who hand over foreign policy as Clinton had... stop us.
    The yellow bellied, corrupt to the core pervert.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 08-31-10 at 02:52 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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