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Court allows agents to secretly put GPS trackers on cars

still far too much. It's the 21st century, we don't need to be wasting our time in the middle east. That's for another topic though.

Absolutely...... nothing in the Middle East that could possibly be considered of National Security or interest.

[/sarcasm]
 
So, let's say I wanted to install a wide-spectrum jamming device in my car....
I think it would fall under the particular state's radar/jammer laws unless it was such a large jam spectrum that it would interfere with FAA/FCC frequencies. So I think all of those laws would pertain to that, also that is a killer idea and I want one!
 
As noted before the government does not need a warrant to follow you in "person"

The main issue would be

Is placing a tracking device on your car, while out of sight, but not in your car a violation of your property rights.

If it is a violation of your property rights then it is clearly unconstitutional, if it is not violating your property rights then it is in my opinion allowed
 
Tracking someone by GPS is not the same thing as following them around in person. GPS tracking requires tampering with private property. In addition, abuse of tailing is limited by police manpower, whereas the cheap GPS has no such limitation. Technology can fundamentally change privacy, and our laws must change with it. I could grab a laser microphone and record the judge having sex and then broadcast it all over the internet. Somehow I doubt my "it is perfectly legal to stand outside and listen" argument would work when the shoe is on the other foot.
 
Absolutely...... nothing in the Middle East that could possibly be considered of National Security or interest.

[/sarcasm]

actually your right, I mean nothing that warrants a full scale war. We could have easily prevented terrorism (and have) with new safety regulations and intensified security. Instead we have now gone to war with the wrong country and have lost thousands of men. The only good thing to come of it is Al Qaeda has been weekend but we still have yet to capture Bin Laden. Keep tricking yourself into thinking that Iraq and Al Qaeda were a major threat to our freedom.
 
As noted before the government does not need a warrant to follow you in "person"

The main issue would be

Is placing a tracking device on your car, while out of sight, but not in your car a violation of your property rights.

If it is a violation of your property rights then it is clearly unconstitutional, if it is not violating your property rights then it is in my opinion allowed

It certainly is a violation.

You can't attach something to a person's home without consent or a warrant.
That would be trespassing and/or vandalism depending on how it is applied.

You can't attach something to a person without consent or a warrant, that's assault.

A car in your drive way, it's still your car and your drive way.
If the police have a compelling need to attach a GPS unit to it, they should and must get a warrant.
Otherwise, they are breaking the law themselves.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

I read somewhere that the black boxes on vehicles will have the ability to broadcast GPS data at some point. I can't wait for the government to get their hands on that information. Imagine being taxed per mile driven, or being mailed a speeding ticket because your GPS unit registered a higher-than-legal speed limit and broadcasted it to the police.

That's what I love about the bicycle... I can go higher than the speed limit and don't have to worry about it... :)
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

Seriously -- guys.... this came out of the 9th Circus court, didn't it? Overturned will be the fate of this one as well...
 
It certainly is a violation.

You can't attach something to a person's home without consent or a warrant.
That would be trespassing and/or vandalism depending on how it is applied.

You can't attach something to a person without consent or a warrant, that's assault.

A car in your drive way, it's still your car and your drive way.
If the police have a compelling need to attach a GPS unit to it, they should and must get a warrant.
Otherwise, they are breaking the law themselves.

People can place flyers on your car without violating your property rights, why can the police not place a tracking device on your car, say on the bumper without violating your property rights. It does not have to be in your driveway, it could be on the street, at your workplace or at the mall
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

That's what I love about the bicycle... I can go higher than the speed limit and don't have to worry about it... :)

I believe you could actually be charged with speeding on a bicycle ( you wont get points on your license though
 
People can place flyers on your car without violating your property rights, why can the police not place a tracking device on your car, say on the bumper without violating your property rights.
Actually no they cannot, if you witness someone putting a flyer on your car and tell them to remove it they must do so, at least in many states. As well there are areas where putting flyers out in public is regulated to one extent or another. So that definitely isn't a universal right. Finally, the police have the burden of proof in due process so they must obtain a warrant unless there is a crime in progress under any proper application of law where evidence gathering is concerned.
It does not have to be in your driveway, it could be on the street, at your workplace or at the mall
Many states consider it an extension of your home, mine does. That would mean that a warrant is necessary.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

I read somewhere that the black boxes on vehicles will have the ability to broadcast GPS data at some point. I can't wait for the government to get their hands on that information. Imagine being taxed per mile driven, or being mailed a speeding ticket because your GPS unit registered a higher-than-legal speed limit and broadcasted it to the police.

If its tied to the car computer, it can probably just read the spedometer
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

If its tied to the car computer, it can probably just read the spedometer
That's correct. It's a little more complicated but basically correct, what would happen is that the computer would send an output signal from the emissions system and read the firing pattern/intake and determine what the total speed should be, that's also how the spedo works on modern cars. Here's a major problem, any changes in weight or emissions malfunctions could throw the calculations off by anywhere from 2-8 m.p.h. if not more so someone could be thinking they are doing the speed limit when in fact they are in violation of the ceiling limit or the computer could actually give a falsely high read when someone is doing at or below the speed limit.

EDIT- The spedo registers off of rotations of the propelling axle typically and changes in wear on tires as well as modifications result in inaccuracies. I misspoke and that was my bad.
 
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Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

That's correct. It's a little more complicated but basically correct, what would happen is that the computer would send an output signal from the emissions system and read the firing pattern/intake and determine what the total speed should be, that's also how the spedo works on modern cars. Here's a major problem, any changes in weight or emissions malfunctions could throw the calculations off by anywhere from 2-8 m.p.h. if not more so someone could be thinking they are doing the speed limit when in fact they are in violation of the ceiling limit or the computer could actually give a falsely high read when someone is doing at or below the speed limit.

EDIT- The spedo registers off of rotations of the propelling axle typically and changes in wear on tires as well as modifications result in inaccuracies. I misspoke and that was my bad.

If I remember right, most states have "wiggle room" on speed limits for that reason. As in, they can't give you a ticket for 67 in a 65 because that's within the accepted speedometer margin of error. I assume that this would be the case for GPS-issued speeding tickets.

Of course, if the US Government put GPS in our cars for the purpose of issuing tickets, I'd join in on the massive riots. If that didn't work, well, I've got some Canadian friends!
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

If I remember right, most states have "wiggle room" on speed limits for that reason. As in, they can't give you a ticket for 67 in a 65 because that's within the accepted speedometer margin of error. I assume that this would be the case for GPS-issued speeding tickets.
I think that the spedometer issue usually gets leniency in hearings, most officers will say the paperwork isn't even worth the 2-3 mph over so won't even stop you, though they can.

Of course, if the US Government put GPS in our cars for the purpose of issuing tickets, I'd join in on the massive riots. If that didn't work, well, I've got some Canadian friends!
Fair enough.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

That's an easy one to fix. Disconnect battery, find black box, open with screwdriver, remove circuitry, reconnect battery, start car, flip off government officials.

Its not going to be that easy. No black box.... no running car.
 
First it 'allows' them to track you anywhere you go... next it will simply be mandatory that all vehicles must be tracked... not that it matters since, in most locales, everyone and their dogs have a cell phone, and those can track you as it is.

Has anyone else caught on to the fact that the original artical discusses how it's the GOVERNMENT that now has rights??

Also, while I'm no legal expert, but correct me if I'm wrong that every other previous precedent states that you DO have a perception of privacy even on your own driveway... or did at least.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

Its not going to be that easy. No black box.... no running car.
There's always a killswitch or CPU command that can be removed or disabled, not really that difficult if you know what you're doing. In this age of internet a quick browser search will lead you to the proper information.
 
First it 'allows' them to track you anywhere you go... next it will simply be mandatory that all vehicles must be tracked... not that it matters since, in most locales, everyone and their dogs have a cell phone, and those can track you as it is.
That's the other thing, any single device that has a position sensor should be subject to either a warrant or waiver of rights of that individual. It's extremely disgusting and disturbing that these government agents are trying to assert the right to sneak a GPS sensor on individuals without their prior knowledge or even court warrants.

Has anyone else caught on to the fact that the original artical discusses how it's the GOVERNMENT that now has rights??
That's even more disturbing, the whole concept of the constitution was to specifically spell out the government's powers and limitations. I am very dissappointed in any person that would expand it past that and this close to Orwellian levels.

Also, while I'm no legal expert, but correct me if I'm wrong that every other previous precedent states that you DO have a perception of privacy even on your own driveway... or did at least.
It's a game to them, they like privacy when it fits an agenda and disregard when it gets in the way.
 
People can place flyers on your car without violating your property rights, why can the police not place a tracking device on your car, say on the bumper without violating your property rights. It does not have to be in your driveway, it could be on the street, at your workplace or at the mall

Fliers are in plain site, the person placing those fliers could have charges filed for trespassing, if we really wanted to push that route.
Most people decide to toss them and not give it a second thought because it's to much trouble for something so little.

Putting a GPS device on a car is a different story, if the need exists getting a warrant should pose little problem.
Why would the police need to put one on if there were no evidence of wrong doing?
 
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There's always a killswitch or CPU command that can be removed or disabled, not really that difficult if you know what you're doing. In this age of internet a quick browser search will lead you to the proper information.

Which, of course, would probably void the warranty on your very expensive vehicle. Very, very few people would go that route.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

I read somewhere that the black boxes on vehicles will have the ability to broadcast GPS data at some point. I can't wait for the government to get their hands on that information. Imagine being taxed per mile driven, or being mailed a speeding ticket because your GPS unit registered a higher-than-legal speed limit and broadcasted it to the police.

As per the speeding thing. I disagree for two reasons.

1. Black box doesn't determine WHO the driver is. Yes they do this with civil fines from red light cameras, but no points are assessed against your license for those.
2. It takes the ****ing fun out of catching speeders. Chasing down a car that was going 70 when I was going 0 is a ****ing blast.
 
Re: The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves

Wow talk about paranoia.

Are all of you involved in organized criminal activity?
Are you all felons?

Why in the **** are you guys so ****ing concerned with the government monitoring you? What makes think the government would WANT to monitor you?

Can anyone give me one legitimate reason why the government would want to monitor them?
 
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