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Thread: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    Only if inflation has increased 320% since 1980, and it has not, it's increased approximately 164% since 1980. What is the attribute then for the remaining 156%?
    Cost of living increases, increase in population, increase in program overhead.



    First, I'll say not all vote Democrate soley because they are social program dependent - but I would say some do, just as some abuse the system and fraud is rampant. Democrats policies however do extend a bribe to those just hanging on to - just hang on longer. And when voting time comes along, vote for the guy or gal who will continue to allow you to hang on. If you had to choose between a Democrat who supports the extension (as is) of Food Stamps versus a Democrat who advocates the removal of the Food Stamp program, which would you (who use food stamps) vote for? Second, you set up a false choice in that without welfare people will starve and or become homeless. That's not necessarily true. If welfare was replaced, or phased out people would have to take care of each other or the welfare participants would be highly motivated to sign on to new programs created to increase their job skills instead of being paid to just stay on the cusp of homelessness. Some people actually have family as well, or could rely on Church or charity. Granted, those organization don't spend $400 billion dollars a year on Federal Welfare ... that's a lot of welfare. Third, not every Democrat is in your unique situation, so the implication that most people are like you is not true, therefore the implication is misleading.
    That depends, would the guy wanting to get rid of the program, also want to reform welfare to what I think the program should be? If so I would vote for that candidate. If they wanted to just get rid of the program, without offering any alternative solutions I would vote for the person keeping the program. Even if I wasn't on food stamps, I don't plan to be on them when I move out.(It's my parents getting them, not me) Like I said, this program, is better than no program. It atleast gives them a chance to get back on their feet. Being homeless instantly makes it harder to get a job.
    And private charities, and churches do great work, and are helpful, but they can't possibly have the same reach, effectiveness, or reliability as government programs have.


    Children always pay for parents mistakes and no amount of social programs will change that. How are children who's parents use welfare money to create more children, or who use that money for drugs or alcohol avoid making their children suffer? They do not.
    Not every situation is ideal, but atleast with these programs, they will have a chance, being in a house, having food, and going to school. It won't prevent them from being affected, but it will lessen the impact, and give them a chance to live their own life.

    You have not addressed 30 years worth of dependence other than saying it IS dependence ... just enough to keep them from being homeless. THAT is the epitome of dependence. That is what Democrats want to keep going and that is what they've co-opted groups like the Black Caucus, NAACP and former Civil Rights leaders into buying into politically. That keeps these groups in power, that keeps Democrats in power through votes. In 25 years as an adult - all one has to do is look around and see this happening year after year. I just don't get why intelligent and moral Democrats ignore it - maybe they don't and that's why they become Independents.
    Like Mega said, what you see as some scheme to get votes, I see as idealism. I don't think Democrats are voting for these welfare programs to get votes, I just think they don't want to see people be homeless, and starving. I don't think anyone believes that someone should be on these programs forever. It's just a temporary crutch for people going through hard times.
    Also you're assuming that people want to stay on these programs. It's not an easy life, and most people really want to get off of these programs. Though they may not have the opportunity too, which is why I support an education, and work program to go along with welfare. Though I'm sure some republicans would call that socialist.
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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You seem to have more faith in Beck than most people. We will see if he can truly avoid attacking those whom he disagrees with.
    If the man says his rally is about bringing people together, non political, no signs, bring your kids, and to help a charity,
    Why would anyone say things "Oh that hateful Glenn Beck is holding a tea party rally. They'll be bashing Obama and they want to do away with the Civil Rights act. It's going to be fill with hate. Don't tell ME it won't be political. he's just in it for the money.."

    I have more faith that Glenn knows more about what his rally is for , than hate filled liberals know what will happen on that day.
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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    We've been talking about this one program (and a little about a 2nd) welfare and Food Stamps. Now let's broaden the scope a bit and look at the rest of the social programs.

    Supplemental Security Income
    Temporary Assistance for the Needy Families
    Food Stamp Program
    WIC
    National Lunch Program
    School Breakfast Program
    Housing Assistance
    General Assistance
    Low Income Home Energy Assistance
    Social Welfare


    Now I've seen Democrats do the same things basically for the last 25 years of my adult life. When you see that happening, you here the rhetoric but don't see the actions. You see costs increasing, you see social programs increasing, you see more programs created but no reforms. And then you broaden he scope out to include multiple programs (and this is only at the Federal Level, there are yet more at the State and Local level), you may start to see what I'm talking about. I don't doubt that good intentions were used - however over time those intentions are corrupted. Were truly, the political spin of Democrats to be helping people - they'd do it. They're not and they haven't. One could argue that giving food, giving money, giving more money and homes, and assistance are all helping --- over time it's not helping, it's hurting. And yes, I add a devious intent to that as well. What was a good intention has turned into a dependence, one that many rely on, live on and die on. That's not help, that's a form of enslavement.

    How different then are drug dealers giving free samples, who now have regular customers any different? Drug dealers need addicts to stay in business. The government needs the poor and downtrodden to keep wanting and needing handouts. The more the better because that, as you stated, would almost assure a vote for their position to extend such benefits to the downtrodden vs. another who would want to remove it. Of course you'd vote for the person advocating extending food stamps! If I were on food stamps or welfare and I didn't have the skills or opportunity to better myself and I felt stuck here with no way out, welfare and food stamps are my lifeline... I'd never vote to get rid of them were I in their shoes. I think the Democratic leadership knows that, counts on it, and perpetuates that situation to assure their power base in politics. They've corrupted good intentions for their own use. You may not see it now, hopefully you'll see it after experiencing more of it.

    That's one of the reasons I could never be a Democrat. I want to teach people to fish, not be dependent on what I give them.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    If the man says his rally is about bringing people together, non political, no signs, bring your kids, and to help a charity,
    Why would anyone say things "Oh that hateful Glenn Beck is holding a tea party rally. They'll be bashing Obama and they want to do away with the Civil Rights act. It's going to be fill with hate. Don't tell ME it won't be political. he's just in it for the money.."

    I have more faith that Glenn knows more about what his rally is for , than hate filled liberals know what will happen on that day.
    Past behavior is a legitimate indicator of future behavior. Glenn Beck has been shown to not always be honest, fair, and especially nonpolitical. I will be happy to be proven wrong, but until I am, I will remain skeptical.

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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    Now I've seen Democrats do the same things basically for the last 25 years of my adult life. When you see that happening, you here the rhetoric but don't see the actions. You see costs increasing, you see social programs increasing, you see more programs created but no reforms. And then you broaden he scope out to include multiple programs (and this is only at the Federal Level, there are yet more at the State and Local level), you may start to see what I'm talking about. I don't doubt that good intentions were used - however over time those intentions are corrupted. Were truly, the political spin of Democrats to be helping people - they'd do it. They're not and they haven't. One could argue that giving food, giving money, giving more money and homes, and assistance are all helping --- over time it's not helping, it's hurting. And yes, I add a devious intent to that as well. What was a good intention has turned into a dependence, one that many rely on, live on and die on. That's not help, that's a form of enslavement.

    How different then are drug dealers giving free samples, who now have regular customers any different? Drug dealers need addicts to stay in business. The government needs the poor and downtrodden to keep wanting and needing handouts. The more the better because that, as you stated, would almost assure a vote for their position to extend such benefits to the downtrodden vs. another who would want to remove it. Of course you'd vote for the person advocating extending food stamps! If I were on food stamps or welfare and I didn't have the skills or opportunity to better myself and I felt stuck here with no way out, welfare and food stamps are my lifeline... I'd never vote to get rid of them were I in their shoes. I think the Democratic leadership knows that, counts on it, and perpetuates that situation to assure their power base in politics. They've corrupted good intentions for their own use. You may not see it now, hopefully you'll see it after experiencing more of it.

    That's one of the reasons I could never be a Democrat. I want to teach people to fish, not be dependent on what I give them.
    First off, I still think it's a big leap to think that because democrats support all these welfare programs just to get votes, and keep people downtrodden is just wrong. You assume that the majority of people in these programs never get off of them, and stay on them for the rest of their lives. Which, they don't, these programs do help people, they do get off of these programs, and have a successful life, because these programs helped them out. I know these programs have helped my family. Are these programs perfect? No. Do we need to reform them? Yes. But to say they don't help people out is quite a stretch. Also you're assuming that they are not reforming these programs because of this evil plot to get votes, and stay in power. Which, like I said I think it's a stretch. It's either they think that these programs are effective, there is not enough voter demand to reform these programs, or there just incompetent in getting things done. And to even remotely prove this assertion, you would have to prove that the majority of people on these social programs vote democrat. Also you would have to prove that these votes are a big enough advantage to keep this 30 year policy of evil dependence going. At the most it's good intentions without having effective policy, but it's nothing evil.
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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    We've been talking about this one program (and a little about a 2nd) welfare and Food Stamps. Now let's broaden the scope a bit and look at the rest of the social programs.

    Supplemental Security Income
    Temporary Assistance for the Needy Families
    Food Stamp Program
    WIC
    National Lunch Program
    School Breakfast Program
    Housing Assistance
    General Assistance
    Low Income Home Energy Assistance
    Social Welfare


    Now I've seen Democrats do the same things basically for the last 25 years of my adult life. When you see that happening, you here the rhetoric but don't see the actions. You see costs increasing, you see social programs increasing, you see more programs created but no reforms. And then you broaden he scope out to include multiple programs (and this is only at the Federal Level, there are yet more at the State and Local level), you may start to see what I'm talking about. I don't doubt that good intentions were used - however over time those intentions are corrupted. Were truly, the political spin of Democrats to be helping people - they'd do it. They're not and they haven't. One could argue that giving food, giving money, giving more money and homes, and assistance are all helping --- over time it's not helping, it's hurting. And yes, I add a devious intent to that as well. What was a good intention has turned into a dependence, one that many rely on, live on and die on. That's not help, that's a form of enslavement.

    How different then are drug dealers giving free samples, who now have regular customers any different? Drug dealers need addicts to stay in business. The government needs the poor and downtrodden to keep wanting and needing handouts. The more the better because that, as you stated, would almost assure a vote for their position to extend such benefits to the downtrodden vs. another who would want to remove it. Of course you'd vote for the person advocating extending food stamps! If I were on food stamps or welfare and I didn't have the skills or opportunity to better myself and I felt stuck here with no way out, welfare and food stamps are my lifeline... I'd never vote to get rid of them were I in their shoes. I think the Democratic leadership knows that, counts on it, and perpetuates that situation to assure their power base in politics. They've corrupted good intentions for their own use. You may not see it now, hopefully you'll see it after experiencing more of it.

    That's one of the reasons I could never be a Democrat. I want to teach people to fish, not be dependent on what I give them.
    You disappointment me Ockham. I thought you were better than this.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 08-26-10 at 04:00 PM.

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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Why do you libs work so hard to tear Glen Beck down? I watch his show as often as possible and all I see is a patriot with true love of country in his heart telling the truth to the American people. He fights for YOUR rights, tries to save YOUR country and all he gets is snide coments from you poor ignorant saps for everything that he says. Find ONE thing that he has said about our economy, our borders, our national security or ourconstitution that is untrue. I'm waiting...

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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanSon316 View Post
    Why do you libs work so hard to tear Glen Beck down? I watch his show as often as possible and all I see is a patriot with true love of country in his heart telling the truth to the American people. He fights for YOUR rights, tries to save YOUR country and all he gets is snide coments from you poor ignorant saps for everything that he says. Find ONE thing that he has said about our economy, our borders, our national security or ourconstitution that is untrue. I'm waiting...
    Glenn Beck is an idiot rodeo clown who pour red kool-aide in the ear of those who lack the education and/or critical thinking abilities to know better... What he says is paranoid crap, not worth your time.

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    Cool Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Glenn Beck is an idiot rodeo clown who pour red kool-aide in the ear of those who lack the education and/or critical thinking abilities to know better... What he says is paranoid crap, not worth your time.
    Still waiting

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    Re: Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You disappointment me Ockham. I thought you were better than this.
    What is disappointing? Seeing reality for what it is? In this particular aspect I do not agree. I've seen enough to know better and once my eyes are opened I can't just close them again and convince myself it doesn't exist. I don't attribute this devious behavior to you or individual democrats. I attribute it to an overall policy that, whether intentional or unintention - is doing just what I say it is. There are very smart people in the Democratic leadership who know better. The bottom line if you write off anything else that I've said so far is: If Democrats wanted to lift people up out of poverty, out of depression and better themselves - they could have and would have done it. They have not.

    That reality in and of itself is enough and as I said - I've seen enough to know better. To quote Pete Stark - Government can do most anything. So when are we going to ask ourselves, "Why aren't they?" And if they aren't doing something that will obviously help more people than the Health Care reform bill that just passed, that would help more than any Medicare or Medicaid subsidy in that it would help people live better lives... why aren't they doing it? Sorry dude... time to open your eyes too.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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