• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

Conservative said:
LOL, so an expert to you is someone who makes wrong predictions? The results matter, not the predictions. You continue to post opinions that have been proven wrong with actual results yet you claim these people are experts. Is that how you operate in real life?
Click to expand...

Nope. Greenspan is an expert. And the CBO is clearly competent. So are other economist, and the agreement is nearly across the board.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope. Greenspan is an expert. And the CBO is clearly competent. So are other economist, and the agreement is nearly across the board.
Click to expand...


Yet, you have yet to address actual numbers nor has Greenspan and the CBO. Still waiting for you to give us the Obama economic policy or prediction that has been good for the economy and accurate? You buy op ed reports while ignoring actual results.
 
Last edited:
Conservative said:
Yet, you have yet to address actual numbers nor has Greenspan and the CBO. Still waiting for you to give us the economic policy or prediction that has been good for the economy and accurate? You buy op ed reports while ignoring actual results.
Click to expand...

Actually, they have. Seriously, read.



BTW:

Critics say that this amounts to increasing taxes at a time of high unemployment, and that instead the tax cuts should be extended as a stimulus measure. This overlooks the fact that tax cuts are an inefficient form of stimulus, because many people choose to save their additional income instead of spending it.

If the goal is to encourage growth and employment immediately, it would be better to let the tax cuts expire and dedicate some of the increased revenue to real stimulus programs. Alternatively, if some tax cuts are extended — as it seems likely that at least those for the middle class will be — there should be provisions to eliminate them automatically when unemployment falls to a preset level.

The Bush Tax Cuts and Fiscal Responsibility - NYTimes.com

But economic research suggests that tax cuts, though difficult for politicians to resist in election season, have limited ability to bolster the flagging economy because they are essentially a supply-side remedy for a problem caused by lack of demand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/business/economy/11tax.html

The truth is that there is virtually no evidence in support of the Bush tax cuts as an economic elixir. To the extent that they had any positive effect on growth, it was very, very modest. Their main effect was simply to reduce the government’s revenue, thereby increasing the budget deficit, which all Republicans claim to abhor.

Bush Tax Cuts Had Little Positive Impact on the Economy - TheFiscalTimes.com
 
Boo Radley said:
Actually, they have. Seriously, read.



BTW:

Critics say that this amounts to increasing taxes at a time of high unemployment, and that instead the tax cuts should be extended as a stimulus measure. This overlooks the fact that tax cuts are an inefficient form of stimulus, because many people choose to save their additional income instead of spending it.

If the goal is to encourage growth and employment immediately, it would be better to let the tax cuts expire and dedicate some of the increased revenue to real stimulus programs. Alternatively, if some tax cuts are extended — as it seems likely that at least those for the middle class will be — there should be provisions to eliminate them automatically when unemployment falls to a preset level.

The Bush Tax Cuts and Fiscal Responsibility - NYTimes.com

But economic research suggests that tax cuts, though difficult for politicians to resist in election season, have limited ability to bolster the flagging economy because they are essentially a supply-side remedy for a problem caused by lack of demand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/business/economy/11tax.html

The truth is that there is virtually no evidence in support of the Bush tax cuts as an economic elixir. To the extent that they had any positive effect on growth, it was very, very modest. Their main effect was simply to reduce the government’s revenue, thereby increasing the budget deficit, which all Republicans claim to abhor.

Bush Tax Cuts Had Little Positive Impact on the Economy - TheFiscalTimes.com
Click to expand...

You just don't get it nor do the liberal elite, people keeping more of their money scares the hell out of liberals as it destroys the basic reason liberals exist, power. People keeping more of their own money have the power and aren't the victims that liberals need. You bought into the rhetoric.

I asked you a question and you ignored it. Maybe you ought to ask the same question of those liberal elites. How can govt. revenue go up AFTER tax rate cuts and based upon that reality how can tax cuts that grow govt. revenue be bad for the economy and cause deficits?

Continue to post opinions and leftwing rhetoric, send more of your dollars to the govt, and create greater dependence on liberal social engineering.

I posted economic growth numbers, posted govt. revenue numbers, applied logic and common sense to those numbers but apparenlty none of that is good enough for you and others who have been brainwashed by liberal rhetoric.
 
Conservative said:
You just don't get it nor do the liberal elite, people keeping more of their money scares the hell out of liberals as it destroys the basic reason liberals exist, power. People keeping more of their own money have the power and aren't the victims that liberals need. You bought into the rhetoric.

I asked you a question and you ignored it. Maybe you ought to ask the same question of those liberal elites. How can govt. revenue go up AFTER tax rate cuts and based upon that reality how can tax cuts that grow govt. revenue be bad for the economy and cause deficits?

Continue to post opinions and leftwing rhetoric, send more of your dollars to the govt, and create greater dependence on liberal social engineering.

I posted economic growth numbers, posted govt. revenue numbers, applied logic and common sense to those numbers but apparenlty none of that is good enough for you and others who have been brainwashed by liberal rhetoric.
Click to expand...

nonsense. Not scared at all. I just believe in paying for what do. It's called fiscal responsibility. This requires cutting spending and raising taxes. Simple.
 
Boo Radley said:
nonsense. Not scared at all. I just believe in paying for what do. It's called fiscal responsibility. This requires cutting spending and raising taxes. Simple.
Click to expand...

Forget it Boo, the only time fiscal reasonably enters a conservative dome is around election time. That is when they start posing as the responsible party, instead of the party that brought on this Hoover like recession/depression we are…slowly pulling out of now.
 
Boo Radley said:
nonsense. Not scared at all. I just believe in paying for what do. It's called fiscal responsibility. This requires cutting spending and raising taxes. Simple.
Click to expand...

Show us all the Obama fiscal responsibility? What did Obama do with the payback of TARP funding?
 
donc said:
Forget it Boo, the only time fiscal reasonably enters a conservative dome is around election time. That is when they start posing as the responsible party, instead of the party that brought on this Hoover like recession/depression we are…slowly pulling out of now.
Click to expand...

Show us the Obama fiscal responsibility, 3 trillion added to the debt in two years? What did Obama do with the TARP payback?
 
Conservative said:
Show us all the Obama fiscal responsibility? What did Obama do with the payback of TARP funding?
Click to expand...

Both presidents use stimulus and ran up the deficit with stimulus. And so would have McCain. So did Reagan. During hard times president have historically participated in deficit spending. This doesn't mean I agree with it, but I'm not hypocritical enough to merely blame one president due to his party.

And as long as people like you keep asking the preisdent to fix it, regardles sor party, the president will try to limit the damage.

But none of that has anything to do with what I'm arguing. If we care about the deficit, we need to cut spending and raise taxes. It's that simple.
 
Boo Radley said:
Both presidents use stimulus and ran up the deficit with stimulus. And so would have McCain. So did Reagan. During hard times president have historically participated in deficit spending. This doesn't mean I agree with it, but I'm not hypocritical enough to merely blame one president due to his party.

And as long as people like you keep asking the preisdent to fix it, regardles sor party, the president will try to limit the damage.

But none of that has anything to do with what I'm arguing. If we care about the deficit, we need to cut spending and raise taxes. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

Its laughable isn’t it? All of this faux reasonability out of one side of their mouth (Shooter??:shock:)and calling for extending a tax cut that will add $36 billion to the federal deficit next year from the other side of the same mouth .
 
Boo Radley said:
Both presidents use stimulus and ran up the deficit with stimulus. And so would have McCain. So did Reagan. During hard times president have historically participated in deficit spending. This doesn't mean I agree with it, but I'm not hypocritical enough to merely blame one president due to his party.

And as long as people like you keep asking the preisdent to fix it, regardles sor party, the president will try to limit the damage.

But none of that has anything to do with what I'm arguing. If we care about the deficit, we need to cut spending and raise taxes. It's that simple.
Click to expand...

Barack Obama is President of the United States and economic conditions are worse today than when he took office. Raising taxes will not put people back to work.

Bush proposed and signed TARP, TARP was mostly paid back after Obama took office, what did Obama do with the money. A fiscally responsible individual would have used it to pay down the deficit so what did he do with it. Same with the unspent stimulus money, where is that money today?
 
Last edited:
Conservative said:
Barack Obama is President of the United States and economic conditions are worse today than when he took office. Raising taxes will not put people back to work.

Bush proposed and signed TARP, TARP was mostly paid back after Obama took office, what did Obama do with the money. A fiscally responsible individual would have used it to pay down the deficit so what did he do with it. Same with the unspent stimulus money, where is that money today?
Click to expand...

Causal relationship fallacy. It's a common fallacy. What you're really arguing when you say what you say above is that government is the answer, and because he hasn't fixed it, the wrong government is in charge. So, you have to believe that government is the answer to believe accept your argument.

Obama has only been in office a couple of years. few large problems can be fixed that quickly, if he could fix them at all. Best he can do is give some temporay relief, stimulus and extended benefits. the rest will be fixed by other factors, most beyond government control in our system. Tax cuts are a supply side solution to a demand problem.
 
Boo Radley said:
Causal relationship fallacy. It's a common fallacy. What you're really arguing when you say what you say above is that government is the answer, and because he hasn't fixed it, the wrong government is in charge. So, you have to believe that government is the answer to believe accept your argument.

Obama has only been in office a couple of years. few large problems can be fixed that quickly, if he could fix them at all. Best he can do is give some temporay relief, stimulus and extended benefits. the rest will be fixed by other factors, most beyond government control in our system. Tax cuts are a supply side solution to a demand problem.
Click to expand...

Obama has been in Congress since 2005 and Democrats have controlled Congress since 2007. You continue arguing the same tired points over and over again. First you claim that President's have no control over the economy then you claim he has only had two years to fix the problems. You are the one contradicting yourself.

I posted actual revenue numbers which show income tax revenue growing after the tax cuts. You have yet to explain why? Since tax cuts apparently had no impact on revenue growth how then can tax cuts cause deficits?
 
Conservative said:
Obama has been in Congress since 2005 and Democrats have controlled Congress since 2007. You continue arguing the same tired points over and over again. First you claim that President's have no control over the economy then you claim he has only had two years to fix the problems. You are the one contradicting yourself.

I posted actual revenue numbers which show income tax revenue growing after the tax cuts. You have yet to explain why? Since tax cuts apparently had no impact on revenue growth how then can tax cuts cause deficits?
Click to expand...

you're not listening. We've gone over this. try something new. ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
you're not listening. We've gone over this. try something new. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, and you have yet to address the actual numbers. Explain why unemployment is up each month of 2010 vs. 2009, why economic growth has declined to 1.6%, and why the Democrat controlled Congress has not submitted a fiscal year 2011 budget? Then explain what is fiscally responsible about not using the repaid TARP funds or unused stimulus funds to lower the deficit?
 
Conservative said:
Yes, and you have yet to address the actual numbers. Explain why unemployment is up each month of 2010 vs. 2009, why economic growth has declined to 1.6%, and why the Democrat controlled Congress has not submitted a fiscal year 2011 budget? Then explain what is fiscally responsible about not using the repaid TARP funds or unused stimulus funds to lower the deficit?
Click to expand...

But I have. Over history, the numbers show no evidence that taxes effect the economy or job growth. And I've explained repeatedly what is wrong with your use of the numbers you keep throwing up.

you're just not listening, or reading I should say.
 
Boo Radley said:
But I have. Over history, the numbers show no evidence that taxes effect the economy or job growth. And I've explained repeatedly what is wrong with your use of the numbers you keep throwing up.

you're just not listening, or reading I should say.
Click to expand...

What you have ignored is the fact that jobs and income tax revenue grew AFTER cutting taxes. Why isn't the issue, the fact is it happened thus the Democrat argument and yours is nothing more than wrong! Tax rate cuts do not cause deficits, spending causes deficits and this Administration has put Bush spending on steroids and the results don't justify it.
 
Conservative said:
Barack Obama is President of the United States and economic conditions are worse today than when he took office. Raising taxes will not put people back to work.

Bush proposed and signed TARP, TARP was mostly paid back after Obama took office, what did Obama do with the money. A fiscally responsible individual would have used it to pay down the deficit so what did he do with it. Same with the unspent stimulus money, where is that money today?
Click to expand...

The economic freefall stopped. How are we worse off?
 
Conservative said:
What you have ignored is the fact that jobs and income tax revenue grew AFTER cutting taxes. Why isn't the issue, the fact is it happened thus the Democrat argument and yours is nothing more than wrong! Tax rate cuts do not cause deficits, spending causes deficits and this Administration has put Bush spending on steroids and the results don't justify it.
Click to expand...

I've ignored nothing and I keep trying to get you to investigate the causal raltaionship error fallacy. Yoiu keep making it and I suspect you will continue until you learn what the problem with your reasoning is.
 
Deuce said:
The economic freefall stopped. How are we worse off?
Click to expand...

I have posted the numbers, BLS shows 4 million more unemployed since Obama took office and unemployment higher each month of 2010 vs. 2009. Is that better?

Obama had the benefits of TARP repayment yet the deficit in two years is 3 trillion dollars. Why wasn't the repaid TARP money used to pay down the deficit? Is that better results?

Obama hasn't spent all the stimulus money so why hasn't he used that non payment to reduce the deficits, is that better?

The recession ended in June 2009 according to NBER yet the second qtr of 2010 the GDP Growth was an annualized 1.6%. Is that better?

Name for me one prediction that Obama has made that has been accurate?
 
Deuce said:
The economic freefall stopped. How are we worse off?
Click to expand...

Really? the economic free fall stopped at the end of the recession in June 2009 prior to any of the Obama stimulus funding from taking place. Today the numbers are worse than they were then so how are things better? Just because Obama says they are better doesn't make it true as evidenced by your silence in giving me any economic prediction that Obama has made that has come true.
 
Boo Radley said:
I've ignored nothing and I keep trying to get you to investigate the causal raltaionship error fallacy. Yoiu keep making it and I suspect you will continue until you learn what the problem with your reasoning is.
Click to expand...

Liberal elites always point to textbook definitions while ignoring actual results and personal behavior.
 
Conservative said:
Really? the economic free fall stopped at the end of the recession in June 2009 prior to any of the Obama stimulus funding from taking place. Today the numbers are worse than they were then so how are things better? Just because Obama says they are better doesn't make it true as evidenced by your silence in giving me any economic prediction that Obama has made that has come true.
Click to expand...

Obama does economic research now? News to me!

CBO says stimulus boosted jobs. It's the subject of this thread.
 
Conservative said:
Liberal elites always point to textbook definitions while ignoring actual results and personal behavior.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know stupid is best for everyone. And you do argue this is a conservative position (though I don't buy it). But, knowing something is really better than ignorance. Trust me on this. And investigate the fallacy.
 
Deuce said:
Obama does economic research now? News to me!

CBO says stimulus boosted jobs. It's the subject of this thread.
Click to expand...

CBO has made a lot of claims, amazing how you continue to buy the rhetoric and ignore the actual results. Obama spent a trillion dollars so why wouldn't some jobs be created. Fact is 4 million more are unemployed today than when he took office and that is the fact. You believe those are acceptable results for creating jobs that cost a lot more than they benefited the economy?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom