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Thread: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Goldenboy, You seem pretty smart when it comes to economics, at least from a Keynesian standpoint. Can you tell me if it is a good thing, or a bad thing that our own Treasury is now buying our own debt?


    j-mac
    That's funny, i am not Keynesian but instead have more of a neoclassical lean. If anything, i have what can be described as a "Sharpeian" lean.

    If the treasury were to purchase its own debt (even though it cannot because the Fed controls the money supply), such an action would then cause massive inflation in an almost instantaneous fashion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Agreed.

    But credit spreads dictate another story; if crowding out was occurring, the cost of private borrowing would greatly exceed the cost of public borrowing. Therefore, crowding out is not occurring. .TEDSP: Ted Spread Summary - Bloomberg

    Anything under 100 basis points means the risk of crowding out is virtually nonexistent.
    Doesn't that assume that there is no inflation going on, though?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Doesn't that assume that there is no inflation going on, though?
    No, why would it?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Goldenboy219;1059000574]Taxpayers and creditors of course. You really need to read more!
    Yes, taxpayers everytime they buy a gallon of gasoline or pay an excise tax a simple fact that liberals ignore and believe they come from income taxes.



    I have a large ego because i understand inflation, when you are merely grasping at straws in an attempt to prove a point? Your anti-intellectualism is tells wonders.
    I have seen no evidence of that understanding of inflation but I do see a lot of name calling that defeats your argument.


    Then make the case for crowding out. I'll wait.
    Crowding out is pretty easy as the govt. just prints money whereas the private sector has to earn it. Competing for loans is like a duck competing against an allegator, the govt. wins all the time thus crowding out the private sector.


    Still not through ranting? Carry on!
    All I see from you is theory that doesn't match reality but it does give the indication that you have zero private sector experience and certainly have never run a business, made a payroll, or competed in the private sector. If that is ranting, so be it.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    My theories? I am simply using positive analysis to explain the current situation.

    If you want a more formal explanation: Demand relative to a person's budgetary constraint.
    But the analysis lacks any explanation of capital markets and how inflation affects them.

    Come on Tony, you are much to smart to believe such bull****. Bubbles are caused by over speculation... period. It has nothing to do with "perceived purchasing power".
    If people believe that they have more purchasing power than they actually have, won't it cause more speculation than they otherwise would have done? Isn't that a great example then over over-speculation?

    Nope! Especially in an economy that has money because it can be spent or saved. If all income earned is spent, then yes Say's law holds true in an economy that functions on money. But what if... as in now... if everyone began saving?

    Here is a simple example: Capitol Hill Babysitting Co-op - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It doesn't change if a large proportion of money is saved (we can't go to the extreme example of everything being saved because it's not realistic). There are two possible scenarios: that money sits stagnant in a bank or it is lent.

    If it sits stagnant in a bank, then the money is pretty much dead. Businesses operate under the conditions that they perceive and what they perceive is money in circulation. So if money is in the bank, then it is, for price levels, deflationary. This is the money under the mattress scenario. Prices will generally fall, but people will keep producing because they are confident in the value of all of the money that they have. The only problem that would arise is if people took all of their money out of savings and spent it all immediately, but I don't see that happening.

    The other case is if it is lent. Well, I don't need to say much about this scenario. In this case, all that money is out in circulation, so it doesn't really need to be explained.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    No, why would it?
    Because if there is inflation going on then even if you are running out of capital you can avoid its immediate realization.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    That's funny, i am not Keynesian but instead have more of a neoclassical lean. If anything, i have what can be described as a "Sharpeian" lean.

    See, you're already smarter than I on these issues....I don't know what
    "Sharpeian" even is.


    If the treasury were to purchase its own debt (even though it cannot because the Fed controls the money supply), such an action would then cause massive inflation in an almost instantaneous fashion.

    This sounds completely opposite from:

    By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer Tue Aug 10, 6:02 pm ET
    WASHINGTON As recently as two months ago, the Federal Reserve sounded optimistic about the economic recovery. Now the central bank is taking a new step that shows it is clearly more worried, but economists say it probably won't help much.
    The Fed said Tuesday that it would spend a relatively small amount of money about $10 billion a month, economists estimate buying government debt. The move is designed to drive interest rates on mortgages and corporate borrowing at least a little lower and help the economy grow faster.

    Fed, worried about recovery, will buy US debt - Yahoo! News
    Isn't this a toe in the door to hyper inflation?


    "Fed Looks to Spur Growth by Buying Government Debt"

    Fed Looks to Spur Growth by Buying Government Debt - Bloomberg

    This is ominous to me, what do you think?


    j-mac
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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, taxpayers everytime they buy a gallon of gasoline or pay an excise tax a simple fact that liberals ignore and believe they come from income taxes.
    Your point?

    I have seen no evidence of that understanding of inflation but I do see a lot of name calling that defeats your argument.
    How so? I was simply quoting nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman.

    Monetarists believe the most significant factor influencing inflation or deflation is how fast the money supply grows or shrinks. They consider fiscal policy, or government spending and taxation, as ineffective in controlling inflation. According to the famous monetarist economist Milton Friedman, "Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." Some monetarists, however, will qualify this by making an exception for very short-term circumstances.
    source

    All you have stated was sheer drivel.

    Crowding out is pretty easy as the govt. just prints money
    Do you have a source to back such a ridiculus claim?

    whereas the private sector has to earn it. Competing for loans is like a duck competing against an allegator, the govt. wins all the time thus crowding out the private sector.
    Wow, i actually feel like i lost intelligence from reading this post. I mean.... wow.

    All I see from you is theory that doesn't match reality but it does give the indication that you have zero private sector experience and certainly have never run a business, made a payroll, or competed in the private sector. If that is ranting, so be it.
    I use theory to analyze reality where as you simply make things up to suit your ideology.

    It's sad really.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    See, you're already smarter than I on these issues....I don't know what
    "Sharpeian" even is.
    Most will not (it pertains to financial economics).

    This sounds completely opposite from:



    Isn't this a toe in the door to hyper inflation?


    "Fed Looks to Spur Growth by Buying Government Debt"

    Fed Looks to Spur Growth by Buying Government Debt - Bloomberg

    This is ominous to me, what do you think?


    j-mac
    The Fed is not the Treasury.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Because if there is inflation going on then even if you are running out of capital you can avoid its immediate realization.
    Nope! If a particular credit market is running short on liquidity, it will require greater rates of interest to induce investors.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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