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Thread: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Think that you increase demand by driving up the size of govt. and thus taxes to pay for it?
    You mean, increase demand by increasing government spending. I do not expect the government to be the one to build roads, bridges, tunnels, etc.... Therefore:

    In the short run? Yes. In the long run? No. Gains in productivity along with inflation reduce the actual tax burden.

    Supply only creates its own demand in a world without money (barter economy).
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-22-10 at 03:58 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You mean, increase demand by increasing government spending. I do not expect the government to be the one to build roads, bridges, tunnels, etc.... Therefore:

    In the short run? Yes. In the long run? No. Gains in productivity along with inflation reduce the actual tax burden.

    Supply only creates its own demand in a world without money (barter economy).
    how are roads, bridges, tunnels supposedly funded?

    Govt. spending increases inflation in the long run where productivity by the private sector is what keeps it down. Until this Administration promotes the private sector by cutting the size of govt. and providing the proper tax incentive, inflation is going to happen and businesses are not going to increase employment enough to put the 4 million people lost during the Obama term back to work.

    People keeping more of their own money needs less govt. thus a smaller govt. not a larger one and when 47% of the people pay zero in income taxes the burden to fund this larger govt. falls on the backs of those already paying most of the taxes and that doesn't bode well for economic growth as they have less spendable income.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    how are roads, bridges, tunnels supposedly funded?
    Government spending, just as i stated in a previous post.

    Govt. spending increases inflation in the long run where productivity by the private sector is what keeps it down.
    Wrong as usual. Inflation (in the long run) is entirely and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.

    Until this Administration promotes the private sector by cutting the size of govt. and providing the proper tax incentive, inflation is going to happen and businesses are not going to increase employment enough to put the 4 million people lost during the Obama term back to work.
    If you cannot make a proper case for crowding out, then your entire "perspective" is garbage. So make the case (although you cannot because it is a bogus argument to be made).

    People keeping more of their own money needs less govt. thus a smaller govt. not a larger one and when 47% of the people pay zero in income taxes the burden to fund this larger govt. falls on the backs of those already paying most of the taxes and that doesn't bode well for economic growth as they have less spendable income.
    Are you through ranting?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Demand drives expansion.... Anyone who tries to argue to the contrary is quite wrong and IMHO a fool.

    Some facts on small business for those who are interested.
    Well then here is this fool's opinion: you can't demand all you want, but if you don't have the productive capability it doesn't mean anything. I want a huge house and a Ferrari, but that's not going to happen. You have a ton of demand for that but it's not going to happen. Your economic theories have a terrible grasp of capital formation and that is why when put into action they have always failed to accomplish the goals they predict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You mean, increase demand by increasing government spending. I do not expect the government to be the one to build roads, bridges, tunnels, etc.... Therefore:

    In the short run? Yes. In the long run? No. Gains in productivity along with inflation reduce the actual tax burden.
    In the short run sure, but then in the long run artificially inflated demand produced by government spending only causes a bubble because actual purchasing power is lower than perceived purchasing power.

    Supply only creates its own demand in a world without money (barter economy).
    Only if you're talking about a bastardized version of Say's Law. If you're creating something that no one demands then of course you're not creating any demand because no one wants your goods. If you're producing something of value, then you'll be able to trade and you'll have the money or goods that you traded for to demand new goods.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If you cannot make a proper case for crowding out, then your entire "perspective" is garbage. So make the case (although you cannot because it is a bogus argument to be made).
    There's only so much capital available. There isn't much to lend if government holds a huge share of debt.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #156
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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Goldenboy219;1059000531]Government spending, just as i stated in a previous post.
    Govt. spending what? Where does the money come from?

    Wrong as usual. Inflation (in the long run) is entirely and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.
    You certainly have a very large ego yet are very short on the facts, logic, and common sense. Govt. employees provide a service and produce absolutely nothing thus creating greater demand for the products out there and that is inflationary.


    If you cannot make a proper case for crowding out, then your entire "perspective" is garbage. So make the case (although you cannot because it is a bogus argument to be made).
    That is your opinion, mine is based upon actually running a business and calling my perspective as garbage says a lot about you.



    Are you through ranting?
    Normal comment when you cannot refute logic, common sense, and facts.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Well then here is this fool's opinion: you can't demand all you want, but if you don't have the productive capability it doesn't mean anything. I want a huge house and a Ferrari, but that's not going to happen. You have a ton of demand for that but it's not going to happen. Your economic theories have a terrible grasp of capital formation and that is why when put into action they have always failed to accomplish the goals they predict.
    My theories? I am simply using positive analysis to explain the current situation.

    If you want a more formal explanation: Demand relative to a person's budgetary constraint.

    In the short run sure, but then in the long run artificially inflated demand produced by government spending only causes a bubble because actual purchasing power is lower than perceived purchasing power.
    Come on Tony, you are much to smart to believe such bull****. Bubbles are caused by over speculation... period. It has nothing to do with "perceived purchasing power".

    Only if you're talking about a bastardized version of Say's Law. If you're creating something that no one demands then of course you're not creating any demand because no one wants your goods. If you're producing something of value, then you'll be able to trade and you'll have the money or goods that you traded for to demand new goods.
    Nope! Especially in an economy that has money because it can be spent or saved. If all income earned is spent, then yes Say's law holds true in an economy that functions on money. But what if... as in now... if everyone began saving?

    Here is a simple example: Capitol Hill Babysitting Co-op - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Govt. spending what? Where does the money come from?
    Taxpayers and creditors of course. You really need to read more!

    You certainly have a very large ego yet are very short on the facts, logic, and common sense. Govt. employees provide a service and produce absolutely nothing thus creating greater demand for the products out there and that is inflationary.
    I have a large ego because i understand inflation, when you are merely grasping at straws in an attempt to prove a point? Your anti-intellectualism tells wonders.

    That is your opinion, mine is based upon actually running a business and calling my perspective as garbage says a lot about you.
    Then make the case for crowding out. I'll wait.

    Normal comment when you cannot refute logic, common sense, and facts.
    Still not through ranting? Carry on!
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-22-10 at 04:56 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Goldenboy, You seem pretty smart when it comes to economics, at least from a Keynesian standpoint. Can you tell me if it is a good thing, or a bad thing that our own Treasury is now buying our own debt?


    j-mac
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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There's only so much capital available. There isn't much to lend if government holds a huge share of debt.
    Agreed.

    But credit spreads dictate another story; if crowding out was occurring, the cost of private borrowing would greatly exceed the cost of public borrowing. Therefore, crowding out is not occurring. .TEDSP: Ted Spread Summary - Bloomberg

    Anything under 100 basis points means the risk of crowding out is virtually nonexistent.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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