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Thread: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

  1. #101
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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    la city controller wendy greuel testifies that 111M of stimu... err, recovery act dollars "created or saved" exactly 45 jobs

    that's a price of 2M per

    Employment generation disappointing: LA City Controller - International Business Times

    worse, she continues, her dept of transportation TARGETED an entire 26 positions to be rescued from unemployment at a PROJECTED cost of 40.8M, or 1.57M each

    that was the dept's GOAL

    unfortunately, the city of angels came up far short, only 9 opportunities were realized for the 40.8

    it is what it is

    the arithmetic of ruin

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says


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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Bust requires that we have an exact standard with exact numbers. I don't think we have either. All I can say with certainty is that it did save some education jobs. There is no doubt about that. And I can say no matter who we elected, there would have been a stimulus. I can also say we'd be just as angery, if not more so, if the president and congress did not try a stimulus. History shows us that quite clearly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    saturday:

    Real Clear Markets - Video - Home Foreclosure Tidal Wave?

    5 million more coming

    no news, here, for those who've been reading the monthlies the last 2 years

    bust

    no wonder obtuse obama can't say the suddenly obscene s-word in polite company

    read more, talk less, don't be lazy, it's the only way to progress

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    All I can say with certainty is that it did save some education jobs. There is no doubt about that.
    You keep saying that like it means something. Saving a handful of education jobs for the cost of about $800 billion out of a labor force of over 150 million people with an unemployment rate of around 10 percent doesn't mean hardly anything. Teachers are important, but its not like we would have lost all our teachers (or even the significant majority of them) otherwise, and given the price tag you need to do far better than a few hundred (maybe a couple thousand) teachers who had their jobs saved. Keep some perspective.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    yeah, yeah, yeah....Conservatives back Republican ideas, and Liberals back demo ideas...Congratulations you have been promoted to 'Master of the Obvious"
    That would be a failure upon your thinking. Republican ideas vary just as much as Democrat ideas. Obamacare is little more then a tweaked platform that the Republicans themselves proposed a decade or so back. Right now it has virtually no support by Republicans and Conservatives. Obama is pushing a R&D credit that is an amped up version of the R&D the GOP enacted when they held power. It's not getting much play by Republicans. Each party backs what it believes will get it the most bang at the moment. Republicans say the stimulus has failed and was nothing more then a liberal handout despite the ugly fact that the stimulus has many identical policies Bush and the GOP enacted following 9/11. It has really nothing to do with the actual ideas and platforms each party has. It has everything to do with what each party believes will gather it the most utility at the current moment. Obama getting bashed by Republicans for enacting their own policies is a sign of that.

    Now I have some questions, because I am not an econ grad, or am I anything close to understanding some of the arguments coming from supporters of Obama these days
    Then you should ask someone else. I didn't vote for him and I have stated repetitively that the stimulus did not work well. Merely because I honestly and objectively look at the subject does not mean I support Obama merely because the facts right now do not support your ideological bias.

    a) How can you trumpet that as a success?
    What are we comparing it to? Compared to January 2007, that's a huge success. Are the numbers good? hardly. But they have been much worse. Some of us have memories longer then a Goldfish's. Some people do not.

    b) How much did every one of those 144,000 Jobs cost in real dollars per job spent by the tax payer?
    Bad question. How many of those jobs were caused by tax payer dollars? You first assume what you want without proving your assumption. You have begged the question and done so in a blatant way that demands me to point out your dishonesty.

    c) What is the earning of these people supposedly employed through Obama's wonderful spending spree? Are they earning as much as before they lost their job?
    See above. Another fallacy based question.

    a) How do you accurately measure a "SAVED" job?
    Good question. That requires a provable counter-factual. Is Obama blowing some smoke on the level of jobs "saved?" Absolutely. But the belief that spending that much cash and nothing happening is pretty insane. Furthermore, the number of jobs likely saved from the stabilization of the banking/financial sector is likely in the millions.

    b) How can liberals continue to point at the Bush Administration as the totally wrong way to go about all things economic, when Obama's plans have put things in overdrive?
    That is your opinion. Not based on fact. Furthermore, if we examine the job losses, they are declining over time and job gains are increasing, even when we strip out census jobs. Learn the difference between opinions and facts. What is more interesting is watching anti-Bush people bash Bush's policies without realizing Obama has adopted many of them and sold them to the same people as the path to success.

    c) How does spending something like a million dollars to create one $30K per year job that only lasts 8 months count as real job creation?
    It doesn't. But that million dollars is clearly not creating just one job. If you believe that to be true, then you must also believe that every time a firm gets a huge order and hires lots of people and boosts demand from suppliers, suppliers don't change their labor demands. Like Boeing getting an order for 80 747s, putting a massive order for parts in and part suppliers not changing anything on their end.

    We'll start here. I am truly looking for some explanations.
    Given your questions, that is patently false. You are looking to hit Obama on anything. If you were honest, you wouldn't have replaced facts with opinions. Nor would you have used multiple fallacy questions.

    I will tolerate your antics for now. But the kids gloves are off.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We can and have shown that education jobs were saved. And once that stimulus money was gone, so were the jobs.
    Then there were no real jobs.

    The government was only giving them money to keep them temorarily busy.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then there were no real jobs.

    The government was only giving them money to keep them temorarily busy.
    Saved while the money was there. No one suggests the stimulus is a long term plan.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Stimulus Boosted Jobs in 2nd Quarter, CBO Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Civil1z@tion View Post
    You keep saying that like it means something. Saving a handful of education jobs for the cost of about $800 billion out of a labor force of over 150 million people with an unemployment rate of around 10 percent doesn't mean hardly anything. Teachers are important, but its not like we would have lost all our teachers (or even the significant majority of them) otherwise, and given the price tag you need to do far better than a few hundred (maybe a couple thousand) teachers who had their jobs saved. Keep some perspective.
    I mention those because we can clearly point to those. We do not know and might have trouble showing others. But if that money wasn't in the mix, being spent, it is reasoanable to assume more people and not less would be unemployed or hurting.

    That said, what would you and others be saying if he did not sign a stimulus package and we were here or worse now?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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