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Thread: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    I hate these debates. Precious regard for human life? Most of the people talking about all this regard for human life are the same people that would say "damn right we bombed Hiroshima!" In other words, we can kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people in other countries, but within America it's wrong to use discarded embryos to further scientific research that could pave the way for cures to cancer, parkinson's and alzheimers. I know, it sounds sooo awful.

    On the other hand, some people who disagree with me are actually consistent in their viewpoints, and I appreciate that. And also on the other hand, this is about money. Awwell. You win some, you lose most.
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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I hate these debates. Precious regard for human life? Most of the people talking about all this regard for human life are the same people that would say "damn right we bombed Hiroshima!"
    Apples and Oranges buddy. WWII is not the same as this, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed TO SAVE LIVES, or did you miss that part?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    In other words, we can kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people in other countries, but within America it's wrong to use discarded embryos to further scientific research that could pave the way for cures to cancer, parkinson's and alzheimers. I know, it sounds sooo awful.
    The problem, and why you hate these debates it would seem, is that you lack perspective, historical understanding or even common sense it would appear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    On the other hand, some people who disagree with me are actually consistent in their viewpoints, and I appreciate that. And also on the other hand, this is about money. Awwell. You win some, you lose most.
    Your comments are NOT Consistent. So you're COOL with killing embroy's, but ending WWII in a manner that saved millions was evil. You have no moral compass sir.
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  3. #33
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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Don't really want to debate this with you because I'm no expert. I've just heard things that say the opposite. That great strides are being made with adult, and embryonic has been quite a disapointment.
    Either way I'm still against creating life to destroy it with tax payer money. Leftovers from fertility clinics with the biological parents approval would be Ok since they'll be destroyed anyway.
    You are correct in that adult stem cell research has been very promising, but embryonic has not been a disappointment. Given the hoopla around all of it, it hasn't seen the funding that it needs up until recently. I'm certainly not qualified to compare the two, but I can talk all day about embryonic stem cell research and how fast things are moving along. Unfortunately, it looks as if it's now going to again suffer with funding issues. And just to set things straight, all embryonic stem cell research is done on 'leftovers' which are approaching nonviability - no one yanks an embryo from the mother and denies her a fetus in the name of research. I can tell you that everything that we got was a step away from the biohazard trash bin. Not sure if that changes your opinion any, but there it is.

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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    For me the biggest tragedy of this whole legal challenge is that it was brought by other scientists who did not do so out of moral concerns, but out of concerns of funding for their own adult stem-cell research. What has become of science?!

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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Actually, adult stem cells are not any more promising than embryonic research. While I have not worked with somatic lines, I can tell you from firsthand experience that embryonic research is very exciting stuff.
    But it isn't more promising. I've also looked into the research, and we have having more advances in living adult stem cells and de-differentiating current cells. Again, it's not illegal for the private sector to find the research, they just don't because embryonic stem cell research is not as promising as other things. We can now de-differentiate a skin cell down to a partially differentiated stem cell. Not only is using current cells humane, but there is also no worry for the body rejecting any organs and other tissues that would be grown from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    We absolutely need to fund stem cell research some more, this stuff is fascinating and could really pave the way for future health care.
    No we don't, what is paving the way for future therapies is genetic therapies and making advances using the stem cells of the patient.
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  6. #36
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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    But it isn't more promising. I've also looked into the research, and we have having more advances in living adult stem cells and de-differentiating current cells. Again, it's not illegal for the private sector to find the research, they just don't because embryonic stem cell research is not as promising as other things. We can now de-differentiate a skin cell down to a partially differentiated stem cell. Not only is using current cells humane, but there is also no worry for the body rejecting any organs and other tissues that would be grown from them.
    I worked many years in adult stem-cell research and can tell you that it matters not whether a stem-cell comes from and embryo or an adult, they serve the same function. Once the stem-cell is programmed with the DNA in question or grafted into the host area, it functions much the same. So to say that one is more promising than the other is not accurate. A stem-cell is a stem-cell. Now, whether or not there is the same promise in the future after newer discoveries are made is hard to say because embryonic stem-cells have been held back due to social issues thus have much more ground to make-up in order to have the same usage levels as adult stem-cells.

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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I worked many years in adult stem-cell research and can tell you that it matters not whether a stem-cell comes from and embryo or an adult, they serve the same function. Once the stem-cell is programmed with the DNA in question or grafted into the host area, it functions much the same. So to say that one is more promising than the other is not accurate. A stem-cell is a stem-cell. Now, whether or not there is the same promise in the future after newer discoveries are made is hard to say because embryonic stem-cells have been held back due to social issues thus have much more ground to make-up in order to have the same usage levels as adult stem-cells.
    Embryonic stem cells are less promising because they are harder to harvest. Plus it's unethical. There would be no rejection of organs and other things grown from an adult's stem cells. They wouldn't function the same, in that the cells from the adult would have the same DNA, and thus no rejection. Something grown from embryonic cells would have different DNA, and will be rejected to some degree by the body. We cans kip immune-suppressors and won't have to worry about rejection. Not only this, but de-differentiating adult cells is more efficient in that they are always available. We would only need to de-differentiate it to the level required for medical workers to signal the cell to grow into a desired tissue. Again, private companies can invest in embryonic stem cell research, they merely don't because it's less promising and more advances have been made in using adult stem cells and studying methods of cellular de-differentiation. My grandfather was saved by stem cell therapies, and they used his own stem cells in order to save his live through the treatment.
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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Apples and Oranges buddy. WWII is not the same as this, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed TO SAVE LIVES, or did you miss that part?
    right, 'cause cancer never kills anyone the moral reasoning is exactly the same, sacrifice innocents for the greater good.
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  9. #39
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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Embryonic stem cells are less promising because they are harder to harvest. Plus it's unethical. There would be no rejection of organs and other things grown from an adult's stem cells. They wouldn't function the same, in that the cells from the adult would have the same DNA, and thus no rejection. Something grown from embryonic cells would have different DNA, and will be rejected to some degree by the body. We cans kip immune-suppressors and won't have to worry about rejection. Not only this, but de-differentiating adult cells is more efficient in that they are always available. We would only need to de-differentiate it to the level required for medical workers to signal the cell to grow into a desired tissue. Again, private companies can invest in embryonic stem cell research, they merely don't because it's less promising and more advances have been made in using adult stem cells and studying methods of cellular de-differentiation. My grandfather was saved by stem cell therapies, and they used his own stem cells in order to save his live through the treatment.
    I am well aware of the uses of stem-cell research and worked in FDA clinical trials to put stem-cells from the bone marrow of kidney and other donors into that of the recipients in order that the recipients bone marrow would begin to produce the same WBCs of the donor so that the immune system of the recipient would recognize the organ from the donor. The fault I find in your position is that the body would not recognize the embryonic stem-cells. Embryonic stem cells are wiped clean of their DNA and a new DNA is introduced through vectors which allows them to be grafted into any patient. The main reason private industry has stayed away from embryonic stem-cells, and you can ask anyone working in the biotech industry of which I work, is because companies want to avoid any bad publicity such research may bring due to social issues over the matter.

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    Re: U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    U.S. court rules against Obama's stem cell policy | Reuters

    After all the hoopla, Obama get's smacked down.
    We don't want any activist judges. None at all....... Wait, we can make an exception here, and wherever else we think we need them. But otherwise, no activist judges.

    Seriously, though, I think this was a wise decision, since Federal funds are involved. Just had to get in my dig for the day, though. LOL.
    Last edited by danarhea; 08-24-10 at 01:30 PM.
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