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Thread: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

  1. #31
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I also pointed out that the Instrument of Surrender met all those criteria because all that matters is that representatives deemed by the governments in question to have the legal power to accept such an agreement accept it. Whether generals or diplomats if the governments who send them agree they have the power to simply accept the treaty and give it legal effect than it is all that matters. That is also based on centuries of state practice.



    I also noted it didn't technically transfer territory, only said a declaration would be implemented that says it must be transferred. That it created an armistice rather than peace does not mean it wasn't a treaty. Also I was not citing rules but definitions, which certainly are legitimate as otherwise the clause stating it isn't retroactive would be meaningless. Obviously the definitions applied to agreements before that one.
    Would you care to cite another case in which territory was transferred from one state to another state via an UNRATIFIED armistice?

    Also, if the case were so open and shut, why did President Truman, the delegates at the San Francisco Peace Conference, and Secretary of State Dulles seem to disagree with your opinion through their actions and words?
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  2. #32
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Oh, and by the way... Governor Chen Yi stated in 1947 that the new ROC Constitution would not apply in Taiwan because it was still under "military occupation". And the legislature never passed a law declaring Taiwan part of the national territory of the ROC as per the ROC Constitution...

    ...darn, those crickets are loud in here Demon...

    cat got your tongue???
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  3. #33
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    One should be careful not to assume revolutionary-type political reform. Both President Hu and Premier Wen are incrementalists; sustaining economic growth remains the overriding goal. They will likely seek modest reforms targeted at immediate/near-term specific problems that could pose a threat to China's economic growth e.g., corruption. Barring a crisis, they are not likely to propose anything that resembles dramatic changes to the nation's political system. In other words, they will seek to refine things. They won't take big risks that would have uncertain payoffs, much less pose new risks to China's growth, etc. For now, the overriding political calculation is that the net benefits of general continuity (which allows for some refinement e.g., targeting narrower, specific problem areas) outweigh those associated with more fundamental change and the uncertainty that would pervade that change.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 04-06-11 at 11:10 AM.

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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    One should be careful not to assume revolutionary-type political reform. Both President Hu and Premier Wen are incrementalists; sustaining economic growth remains the overriding goal. They will likely seek modest reforms targeted at immediate/near-term specific problems that could pose a threat to China's economic growth e.g., corruption. Barring a crisis, they are not likely to propose anything that resembles dramatic changes to the nation's political system. In other words, they will seek to refine things. They won't take big risks that would have uncertain payoffs, much less pose new risks to China's growth, etc. For now, the overriding political calculation is that the net benefits of general continuity (which allows for some refinement e.g., targeting narrower, specific problem areas) outweigh those associated with more fundamental change and the uncertainty that would pervade that change.
    I don't expect ANY kind of meaningful reform so long as the Communist Party of China remains in sole control of the country...
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I don't expect ANY kind of meaningful reform so long as the Communist Party of China remains in sole control of the country...
    I would argue that the economic reforms that began under Deng Xiao Ping were meaningful. However, on the political front, I believe prospects of significant political moves that would allow for multi-party government are currently remote. That's the fundamental reality of any system in which a single party enjoys near monopoly (or greater) rule and also views such an exclusive role as a basic governing principle.

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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I would argue that the economic reforms that began under Deng Xiao Ping were meaningful. However, on the political front, I believe prospects of significant political moves that would allow for multi-party government are currently remote. That's the fundamental reality of any system in which a single party enjoys near monopoly (or greater) rule and also views such an exclusive role as a basic governing principle.
    I think there is a fundamental problem with how the West evaluates China because it presumes multi-party representative electoral democracy is the only kind of democracy that can exist. So if China does not adopt that system it must mean it is not a democracy. However, multiple political parties are not essential to a democratic system or political parties in general. Political parties emerged from the disputes amongst the elites and have always served as a means by which they can maintain their control over a government's affairs.

    The theoretical democratic essentiality of multiple political parties is rooted in a false premise of social Darwinism. It is a notion that when you have political groups competing with each other they will naturally trend towards the best solutions for the country and the people. However, the reality is that the political parties will employ any means at their disposal in order to achieve power and maintain it simply due to a thirst for power. At the same time groups outside the political parties will look for ways to play both parties so as to achieve their own advantage regardless of the result.

    So we should not be so insistent on the notion of multiple political parties. China has employed and experimented with a number of other measures that allow the people to check the power of government and offer up their voice on political matters as well as measures to prevent a single group or individual from dominating the power structure. I believe political reform in China is most likely going to take the path of expanding these measures and improving their effectiveness.
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  7. #37
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I would argue that the economic reforms that began under Deng Xiao Ping were meaningful. However, on the political front, I believe prospects of significant political moves that would allow for multi-party government are currently remote. That's the fundamental reality of any system in which a single party enjoys near monopoly (or greater) rule and also views such an exclusive role as a basic governing principle.
    Sorry... I should have qualified that by saying 'political reforms'... sorry for being unclear
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  8. #38
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I think there is a fundamental problem with how the West evaluates China because it presumes multi-party representative electoral democracy is the only kind of democracy that can exist. So if China does not adopt that system it must mean it is not a democracy. However, multiple political parties are not essential to a democratic system or political parties in general. Political parties emerged from the disputes amongst the elites and have always served as a means by which they can maintain their control over a government's affairs.

    The theoretical democratic essentiality of multiple political parties is rooted in a false premise of social Darwinism. It is a notion that when you have political groups competing with each other they will naturally trend towards the best solutions for the country and the people. However, the reality is that the political parties will employ any means at their disposal in order to achieve power and maintain it simply due to a thirst for power. At the same time groups outside the political parties will look for ways to play both parties so as to achieve their own advantage regardless of the result.

    So we should not be so insistent on the notion of multiple political parties. China has employed and experimented with a number of other measures that allow the people to check the power of government and offer up their voice on political matters as well as measures to prevent a single group or individual from dominating the power structure. I believe political reform in China is most likely going to take the path of expanding these measures and improving their effectiveness.
    Problem is, so long as the CPC is the sole arbiter on who can and can't run for office, you won't have any true democratic system, whether western-style or not. And as it is now, the people have no real check on the power of the government and human, civil, and political rights are not well protected in the country for most people.

    Still crickets on your treaty claims I see....
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  9. #39
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Oh, and by the way... Governor Chen Yi stated in 1947 that the new ROC Constitution would not apply in Taiwan because it was still under "military occupation". And the legislature never passed a law declaring Taiwan part of the national territory of the ROC as per the ROC Constitution...

    ...darn, those crickets are loud in here Demon...

    cat got your tongue???
    Wow... pro-China types always cut and run when confronted with a truth they can't counter...
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    Re: China Premier Wen calls for political reform: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I get tired of people saying this kind of bull****. Sorry, but only in your Sinophobic wet dreams is there going to be a revolution in China any time soon. People who believe in such nonsense have a fundamental misunderstanding of China and its politics.
    All of your ad hominem attacks aside, here's some confirmation that not all is well within China:
    Chinese TV Host Says Regime Nearly Bankrupt | Business & Economy | China | Epoch Times

    Liberals live their lives in fear, clinging to their bongs, welfare checks and JFK photos singing Kumbaya and dreaming of rainbows

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