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Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

ReverendHellh0und said:
He was asked, he refused to denounce.
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Which is meaningless. It is the gottcha type of gae nonthinkers use to falsely present a view not stated.


any links or are we again supposed to take your dubious word for it?
So, yes, the critism has been mostly inaccurate.
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Try reading the thread. I used the links provided by those making the claim. Any honest reading of it wouldprove my point.
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Khayembii Communique said:
He doesn't have to take anyone's feelings into consideration if he doesn't want to. If he wanted he could construct a giant middle finger pointed straight at Ground Zero
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Thats an interesting thought. I wonder if you would support the opposition building a giant middle finger pointed at this "community center"? Would that be OK too?
 
Agent Ferris said:

Wrong, I've looked at the entire transcript from the 60 minutes interview where he blamed the United States for 9-11 and said OBL was made in the USA, I've listened to the entire podcast of the WABC radio interview where he repeatedly refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, I've read the entire article he wrote supporting Sharia, and I've watched the entire video where he compares the United States unfavorably to Al-Qaeda.
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That is exactly why most informed americans [a large part of the 2/3 against] are suspicious of this guy and his buddies. Worth repeating... Muslim leaders who refuse to openly stand against Hamas and claim "the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaida has on its hands of innocent non Muslims."
 
Zyphlin said:
True or False - The hijackers were willing to kill themselves in the midst of the attacks due to the belief it would make them a martyr and they would be rewarded for it in the afterlife based on their belief in Islam

True or False - The hijackers and those pulling the strings of them hatred America in part because they view them as the "Great Satan" due to their religious beliefs?

True or False - The hijackers and those pulling the strings are upset that Americans have been meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, and that is in part founded in the belief that they're desecrating the "Land of Islam". Specifically in its "Holiest of Places".

True or False - The hijackers and/or those pulling the strings believe it is the duty of every *muslim* to kill americans due to the above?

True or False - The hijackers and/or those pulling the strings justified these types of attacks due to the notion of killing Americans for the reasons above being "in accordance with the words of Might Allah"?

True or False - The organization in question pulling the strings have followed through or spoke agreement with a Jihad, essentially a holy muslim struggle, based on a fatwa, a islamic opinion concerning islamic law issued by an islamic scholar, against the United States?

Notice any similarity in all those things?

Is Islam, ALL of islam, to blame for 9/11?

Absolutely not.

Is Islam unquestionably connected to the reasons, justifications, and methods in relation to how 9/11 occured?

Absolutely.
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So the Masjid Manhattan is just two blocks further back from Ground Zero, and now they want to build another mosque two blocks closer to Ground Zero.
 

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Boo Radley said:
No, he did not call for Sharia law here as some claimed earlier. he said clearly our consitition already had the needed fairness.
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In his interview on Hadiyul-Islam by Sa’da Abdul Maksoud, Abdul Rauf was asked his views on Sharia (Islamic religious law) and the Islamic state. He responded:

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed."
 
Hellhound said:
he refused to renounce...
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He refused to renounce what the Spanish Inquisition told him to, so this gives us more steam for our Crusades against "the evil ones."

I'm so glad people didn't have Internet in the 12th Century.
 
j-mac said:
how many Muslims have we helped?


j-mac
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Avoidance.

You have helped many.

And I never said you killed them intentionally, but you have killed alot of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not only that, but you have incarcerated indefinitely alot of innocent people at Gitmo, handed over many innocent people to foreign governments to be tortured, it's not a nice fact to face, but you did.

Some aren't innocent I'm not maintaining that, but they have the right to have their case heard my a jury...
 
Jetboogieman said:
Avoidance.

You have helped many.

And I never said you killed them intentionally, but you have killed alot of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not only that, but you have incarcerated indefinitely alot of innocent people at Gitmo, handed over many innocent people to foreign governments to be tortured, it's not a nice fact to face, but you did.

Some aren't innocent I'm not maintaining that, but they have the right to have their case heard my a jury...
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Problem is with you 'blame America firsters' is that you fail to take into account the good that America stands for, the good we have brought to millions across the globe.

I got a news flash for ya jb. War is a horrible thing, it takes innocent lives, and damages things. That is just what it is. But to say that the Iraqi's or Afghanis that died over the past 9 years was for nothing, or equating it to what the terrorists did in cold blood is pathetic.

We have incarcerated people whom we thought were enemies engaged in terror against innocent people. You hold up Gitmo as some sort of bad, or evil thing, tell me JB, is it closed yet? And why not?

It simply astonishes me that this haggard old argument always pops up even when its relevance is questionable, but I applaud you for typing yet again the propaganda of those praying for our defeat, it shows exactly who you are regardless of what you say under your avatar. :doh


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Problem is with you 'blame America firsters' is that you fail to take into account the good that America stands for, the good we have brought to millions across the globe.
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I'm not a blame America firster, nice label.

I know what good you stand for. But sometimes you have to aknowledge the wrong you've done as well.

I got a news flash for ya jb. War is a horrible thing, it takes innocent lives, and damages things. That is just what it is.
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No **** sherlock. It's whether those wars are nessecary such as hmm.... Iraq.

But to say that the Iraqi's or Afghanis that died over the past 9 years was for nothing, or equating it to what the terrorists did in cold blood is pathetic.
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That isn't what he's actually saying. Fact: You have killed more innocent muslims since 9/11 then got killed on 9/11. In fact you've lost more soldiers then people who died on 9/11.

We have incarcerated people whom we thought were enemies engaged in terror against innocent people. You hold up Gitmo as some sort of bad, or evil thing.
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It is an evil thing. I'm sorry as painful as it is for you to think, those people in there deserve to have their cases heard by a judge and jury. If they are really terrorists, how hard could it be to prove your case?

tell me JB, is it closed yet? And why not?
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Is it closed no. why is it not closed: Politics. I wish Obama would grow a pair and go for it anyway, but the Republicans would have a field day if he ever tried to shut it.

It simply astonishes me that this haggard old argument always pops up even when its relevance is questionable, but I applaud you for typing yet again the propaganda of those praying for our defeat, it shows exactly who you are regardless of what you say under your avatar. :doh

j-mac
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Praying for your defeat? I'm one of your allies, and if me saying trial by judge and jury and presumption of innocence is propoganda well then paint me Geobells.
 
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Obamanator said:
Thats an interesting thought. I wonder if you would support the opposition building a giant middle finger pointed at this "community center"? Would that be OK too?
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To all terrorists worldwide...regardless of race, religion or creed...

trade%20center%20middle%20finger.jpg
 
Laila said:
:lol:

Weird considering I could be a fat slob with no hair who does the naked dance ritual
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But you aren't. I've seen pictures. :D
 
Obamanator said:
In his interview on Hadiyul-Islam by Sa’da Abdul Maksoud, Abdul Rauf was asked his views on Sharia (Islamic religious law) and the Islamic state. He responded:

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed."
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I would love a link, because if it is lake the last quote given, he says more that qualifies this, making it not mean what is claimed. That's the trouble with taking quotes without putting them in context.
 
texmaster said:
Meaningless that he wont call a terrorist organization what it is? Explain yourself.
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Not calling something is not the same as presenting a view. He may want to avoid name calling for reasons other than he approves. It is merely a game played to avoid thinking about something beyond suface level. I can't speak for him, but I won't assume either. Not saying something is simply meaningless. We need what he actually professes.
 
j-mac said:
how many Muslims have we helped?


j-mac
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Does that make the other not true? And must you always have to have someone throw that in when talking about the other?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I'm not a blame America firster, nice label.

I know what good you stand for. But sometimes you have to aknowledge the wrong you've done as well.
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I sometimes think this tag line is a sign of poor nation esteem. The need to always be praised and never hear a crtical word is similar to me of an individual suffering from poor self esteem. Confident people can hear criticism and acknowledge problems without needing to be praised only.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I'm not a blame America firster, nice label.
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That's odd, because I don't see a whole lot of talk about what America has done good in the world from you...If I am wrong about that I apologize.


I know what good you stand for. But sometimes you have to aknowledge the wrong you've done as well.
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I agree, and I also believe that America has acknowledged when they have done harmful things, and further gone to extraordinary lengths to right those wrongs.

No **** sherlock. It's whether those wars are nessecary such as hmm.... Iraq.
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Without debating the entire Iraq war, do you believe that an Iraq with Saddam Hussein still in power would have been a positive thing in the world today?

That isn't what he's actually saying. Fact: You have killed more innocent muslims since 9/11 then got killed on 9/11. In fact you've lost more soldiers then people who died on 9/11.
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Yep, so we have shed our blood for their freedom...Nice of us isn't it?

It is an evil thing. I'm sorry as painful as it is for you to think, those people in there deserve to have their cases heard by a judge and jury. If they are really terrorists, how hard could it be to prove your case?
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No, I don't think it is. Gitmo is a state of the art facility, these prisoners get better treatment there than anywhere else in the world. I do agree that the tribunals need to go forward, and are overdue, but why do you suppose they haven't? I mean, Obama said he was all about closing this place, and yet he is doing no different than Bush did....Might that tell you that it is just slightly more complicated than what you think?

s it closed no. why is it not closed: Politics. I wish Obama would grow a pair and go for it anyway, but the Republicans would have a field day if he ever tried to shut it.
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Shouldn't matter. Obama said he was a principled man, and he'd rather be considered a great one termer, than a run of the mill two termer....Yeah right. Another lie.

Praying for your defeat? I'm one of your allies, and if me saying trial by judge and jury and presumption of innocence is propoganda well then paint me Geobells.
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Well, let me back up a little. Sorry for the inflammatory tact on this part, I actually agree that the tribunals need to proceed. Unfortunately today it is all too easy to pick a side that one thinks is popular and go with it, and that brings in a sheepish mentality to the debate. I say try them, then execute them.

j-mac
 
Qatzel Ok said:
When you point a middle finger, there are four fingers pointing right back at you.
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Actually the other fingers are pointed down ... :shrug:

Welcome to the forum, by the way.
 
Coronado said:
Actually the other fingers are pointed down ... :shrug:

Welcome to the forum, by the way.
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And there are only three of them, as well.
 
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