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Thread: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes or no, the 9/11 attackers were inspired by, the methods acceptable becuase of, and the results justified based on the hijackers and their leaders religious beliefs?

    Its a simple yes or no. Stating its a "yes" does not necessarily mean that you agree with my point concerning the mosque. But this notion that Islam had nothing to do with 9/11 that people on this forum are trying to present is absolute bull****.

    You all trying to counter it with "OMG Christian did something bad for any reason = the same thing" is not a counter, nor accurate, as its not even what I'm stating.
    I can't say I disagree with this. Was Islam a factor in the 9/11 attacks, no doubt. Was it the only factor, I don't think so. But Islam was used as a justification for the attacks, and the hijackers thought they were doing this for their god.
    Is it okay to blame all muslims, or the religion of Islam itself, no. I think that's simplifying things too much. I'm not opposed to this mosque, to me building this mosque 2 blocks away from ground zero( or on ground zero, depends on your definition) is the same as building one in downtown Atlanta. I don't associate Islam with terrorism, I associate terrorism with assholes who need to be taken down.
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So I assume this egregious personal attack by you means you have nothing to contribute to the discussion? Yeah, didn't think so....buh bye now.


    j-mac
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    You jumped into this thread without a clue as to what you're talking about, regurgitating FOX talking points. How does that help?

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And no one is saying that religion had nothing to do with it.
    Here was the post I responded to, and the specific line:

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I wouldn't say it does. There is still a real ingorance to the protesting. The building isn't on ground zero, Muslims didn't perpetrate 9/11 (al Qaeda did), and no evidence presented has shown any rational reason for the protesting. There is no more reason to even consider Muslims as an insult than there is to consider the Klan represents all Christians.
    This is suggesting that religion had nothing to do with it, it was just a terrorist group, and therefore its ridiculous for people to be bothered by any connection to that religion to 9/11.

    I was showing that the issue was not that they were Muslims, but it was the fact their faith specifically was instrumental in what occured. There is a large difference in saying "Some muslim killed a guy" and the reasons for the killing was because the guy beat up and raped his girlfriend and the Muslim guy walked in on it and a fit of rage killed him and saying "Some Muslim killed a guy" and he did so because he viewed him as an infidel and his religion told him to slay the man.

    I was clarifying that peoples issue are not necessarily that "OMG they were muslims". It was the fact of how directly the religion itself impacted those attacks.

    However, if we allow that small bit into it, then we also have to allow that Christianity plays a part in our wars in the middle east.
    Oh? Care to explain how.

    Further, care to compare the levels of the religious justification, motivation, and methods between the two?

    The truth is, Muslim's are not the enemy.
    Also the sky is blue, pizza is awesome, and 300 was a rad movie. Shall we say any other things that the two of us haven't been disagreeing about?

    The attack was not a Muslim attack.
    Correct, it was a terrorist attack motivated, justified, and performed in ways inspired by their and their leaders Islamic faith.

    No one involved in the Mosque are impli8cated in the 9/11 attack. The anger is misplaced.
    Oh, my anger at the mosque is not concerning their implication in 9/11. My anger at the mosque is in their obvious douchebaggery and tactlessness and/or blatant and obvious lies.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes or no, the 9/11 attackers were inspired by, the methods acceptable becuase of, and the results justified based on the hijackers and their leaders religious beliefs?
    No.

    Like Bush said, Al Qaeda is a twisted version of Islam.

    What the hijackers did has nothing to do with the mainstream practice of Islam.

    Had enough?

    Are we done?

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Zyphlin, I think you are reading too much into his words. I take another meaning from his words, which is that it was not Muslims who attacked on 9/11, but Al Queda, who happened to be Muslim.
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I can't say I disagree with this. Was Islam a factor in the 9/11 attacks, no doubt. Was it the only factor, I don't think so. But Islam was used as a justification for the attacks, and the hijackers thought they were doing this for their god.
    Is it okay to blame all muslims, or the religion of Islam itself, no. I think that's simplifying things too much. I'm not opposed to this mosque, to me building this mosque 2 blocks away from ground zero( or on ground zero, depends on your definition) is the same as building one in downtown Atlanta. I don't associate Islam with terrorism, I associate terrorism with assholes who need to be taken down.
    Look everyone, someone that actually gets what I'm saying, DISAGREES WITH MY END POSITION, and yet still is able to honestly discuss what I stated.

    Thank you YouStar.

    And I agree, its ridiculous to blame all Muslims for 9/11. Its ridiculous to think "The muslims are the enemy". And I think its even ridiculous to suggest a law must be made to keep them from placing a "mosque of conquest" or whatever other such hyperbole people are trying to place on this.

    However, I also think its ridiculous to build a mosque in such a place that's OBVIOUSLY going to needlessly inflame people if your purpose is to "build bridges". I think its ridiculous to attempt to capitalize on 9/11 and use it as a giant club to beat over the head of people visiting said location that they must be tolerant and understanding towards a religion that was instrumental in the attacks.

    Do I think that message in general...that we should be tolerant of Islam, more understanding, and realize that not all muslims are terrorist...a good one? ABSOLUTELY! But I think that it does that message a disservice to try and force it on people and club them over the head with it through the use of 9/11 itself. I think its disrespectful, tactless, and insulting. I think it shouldn't have been there, and I applaud the Mayor for offering tem up other land, and I support those that protest it. And I would oppose any law that attempted to forbid them from going forward with it.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    No.

    Like Bush said, Al Qaeda is a twisted version of Islam.

    What the hijackers did has nothing to do with the mainstream practice of Islam.

    Had enough?

    Are we done?
    Where did I say "mainstream" Islam. Fundamentalist Christianity isn't "mainstream" christianity, its still Christianity. Al Quada follows an extremely fundamentalist version of Islam and uses it to justify extremely twisted things. That doesn't magically make it not Islam.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Zyphlin, I think you are reading too much into his words. I take another meaning from his words, which is that it was not Muslims who attacked on 9/11, but Al Queda, who happened to be Muslim.
    And what I'm saying is whether or not they are "muslims" is irrelevant in the situation to me and I dare say many others. What's relevant to me is their use of Islam to motivate, create, execute, and justify the attack. Its not their designation of their religion, it is the use of their religion.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I can't say I disagree with this. Was Islam a factor in the 9/11 attacks, no doubt.
    A twisted version of Islam (like Bush said) that has nothing to do with the mainstream practice of Islam or the Imam behind the Cultural Center.

    Al Qaeda is to Islam as the Klan is Christianity or the Spanish Inquisition is to Catholicism.

    Hell, the anti-gay stance and creationism is a 'twisted' version of Christianity -- where scripture is interpreted without historical context.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And what I'm saying is whether or not they are "muslims" is irrelevant in the situation to me and I dare say many others. What's relevant to me is their use of Islam to motivate, create, execute, and justify the attack. Its not their designation of their religion, it is the use of their religion.
    But people use all religions in just this manner(and opens up the KKK and abortion clinic bombing comparisons). It is also not the fault of the religion, nor of those who do not use the religion in this manner. Which is, again, why I say the anger is misplaced.
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