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Thread: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Thats what life is, a big cosmic joke. That's why I'm laughing at your "attack the messenger" fallacy instead of addressing Beck's hypocricy.

    What hypocricy? I wasn't attacking the messager I was correcting the messenger.
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    Thanked 261 in 182 Posts Re: Beck responds to "good Muslim" Rauf interview with mockery and lies
    Originally Posted by pbrauer


    Strike Three: Beck again tries to lie his way out of his Imam Rauf flip-flop | Media Matters for America
    LOL This is priceless Thanks for the link!

    BECK: Let me show you how you at Media Matters originally reported the very same story from the very same interview in 2006. I wonder if they're the same. ... You see, here's the problem: They're using the same -- this one is now, and they're saying, "See, I endorse him. He's good." This one is using the same video clip and saying, "I hate all Muslims." That's weird. Using the same thing. Highlighting different words.
    Liblady is so generous
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Shoot, I thought a link to MM would come through on that post.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    What hypocricy? I wasn't attacking the messager I was correcting the messenger.
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    Thanked 261 in 182 Posts Re: Beck responds to "good Muslim" Rauf interview with mockery and lies
    Originally Posted by pbrauer


    Strike Three: Beck again tries to lie his way out of his Imam Rauf flip-flop | Media Matters for America
    LOL This is priceless Thanks for the link!

    BECK: Let me show you how you at Media Matters originally reported the very same story from the very same interview in 2006. I wonder if they're the same. ... You see, here's the problem: They're using the same -- this one is now, and they're saying, "See, I endorse him. He's good." This one is using the same video clip and saying, "I hate all Muslims." That's weird. Using the same thing. Highlighting different words.
    Liblady is so generous
    Hmmm, MM does highlight the different words in 2006 and yet Glenn Beck does agree with Sawyer that the Iman is not a radical Muslim "sure,....sure, I believe it's a small portion of Islam that is acting in these ways......They are -- they're hijacking a beautiful religion......I believe there is a cancer that is radicalized Islam, and it must be cut out or it's going to kill all of us including the good Muslims, (gestures toward Imam Rauf) and that is the vast majority of Islam."

    Beck agrees with Sawyer, the Imam is not a radical Muslim. Beck said Islam is a "beautiful religion". He gestures to the Imam when he says "good Muslims." He finished by saying, "that is the vast majority of Islam", meaning they are good Muslims, too.

    The Imam for his part agrees with Beck, that radical Muslims are calling for Armageddon against the west, and he called for a "delinking of religion from politics in both the west and the Middle East" to defuse the situation and Beck nods in agreement. I think that pretty much proves Beck considered Imam Rauf to be a moderate Muslim.

    Unfortunately I can't say Glenn Beck is a moderate because he failed to agree with the Imam that radical Evangelicals in the US are also calling for Armaggedon with Islam and that his own rhetoric against Islam is ramping up the hate and fear every bit as much as the Muslim jihadist. In fact, there is little that separates Beck from U.S born Anwar al-Awlaki when it comes to recruiting the ignorant and weak minded to do their dirty work in this country (ie: Tides Foundation) and that makes Beck every bit as dangerous and a national security risk to the US as Al Qaeda.
    Last edited by Moot; 08-26-10 at 06:52 AM.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Hmmm, MM does highlight the different words in 2006 and yet Glenn Beck does agree with Sawyer that the Iman is not a radical Muslim "sure,....sure, I believe it's a small portion of Islam that is acting in these ways......They are -- they're hijacking a beautiful religion......I believe there is a cancer that is radicalized Islam, and it must be cut out or it's going to kill all of us including the good Muslims, (gestures toward Imam Rauf) and that is the vast majority of Islam."

    Beck agrees with Sawyer, the Imam is not a radical Muslim. Beck said Islam is a "beautiful religion". He gestures to the Imam when he says "good Muslims." He finished by saying, "that is the vast majority of Islam", meaning they are good Muslims, too.

    The Imam for his part agrees with Beck, that radical Muslims are calling for Armageddon against the west, and he called for a "delinking of religion from politics in both the west and the Middle East" to defuse the situation and Beck nods in agreement. I think that pretty much proves Beck considered Imam Rauf to be a moderate Muslim.

    Unfortunately I can't say Glenn Beck is a moderate because he failed to agree with the Imam that radical Evangelicals in the US are also calling for Armaggedon with Islam and that his own rhetoric against Islam is ramping up the hate and fear every bit as much as the Muslim jihadist. In fact, there is little that separates Beck from U.S born Anwar al-Awlaki when it comes to recruiting the ignorant and weak minded to do their dirty work in this country (ie: Tides Foundation) and that makes Beck every bit as dangerous and a national security risk to the US as Al Qaeda.

    And Beck to this day still says that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, moderate muslims. however, (my words now) in this day and age of caliphate by radicals across the globe aimed at western culture, and anyone who does not submit, and convert, lying is but one of their tools. Problem is that liberals are so inclined to make friends that they totally ignore that, and further, when a site like MM is your backing for your thoughts, there are more problems to your argument than just a lack of critical thinking skills, it goes to dishonesty as well.


    IMHO.


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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And Beck to this day still says that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, moderate muslims. however, (my words now) in this day and age of caliphate by radicals across the globe aimed at western culture, and anyone who does not submit, and convert, lying is but one of their tools. Problem is that liberals are so inclined to make friends that they totally ignore that, and further, when a site like MM is your backing for your thoughts, there are more problems to your argument than just a lack of critical thinking skills, it goes to dishonesty as well.


    IMHO.


    j-mac
    Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.
    I think the key difference is the official recognition of religion vs some religious people doing their thing in a private setting.

    Personally, I believe that government staying out of religion is to the benefit of religion (look at the Roman empire, the middle ages, and various modern theocracies and see how much religion and politics mixing lead to the corruption of the religion).

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Just a comment here - there seems to be this black and white view of muslims. Either they're fringe terrorists or they're moderate & peaceful. I don't think anything is that black and white in this world. There are shades of grey here. Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest? And when the progressive liberal left start degrading those who don't agree with them and start throwing around vitriolic propaganda like "Islamaphobic" and "un-American"... we have to realize these are the same progressive liberals who want God stricken from every public building, off our money, and manger scenes taken down each and every Christmas. I just can't bring myself to give them much credibility on such an issue as this.

    Well, I think you have a point here, we need to scrutinize further those mosque's within our midst. And can anyone tell me please why it is that the terror training site at Red House Va. has never been fully investigated? We are going back to sleep.


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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yes some small pockets of moderate American muslims are coming out and speaking out disagreeing with the placement of the Islamic Center / Mosque. Where are the rest?
    The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

    Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Qatzel Ok View Post
    The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

    Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?


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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Qatzel Ok View Post
    The rest are probably like me, and find this "controversy" unbelievably stupid and petty. Is the American mind so degraded by propaganda against oil-producing nations that half the people find mosque-building an attack on their right to live in complete ignorance of other cultural traditions?

    Was that banking tower that got taken down really sacred to Christ?
    Then you may want to reconsider your opinion. Not everyone believes it silly and petty. Turn this around a minute and let's say Christian extremists crashed a fully loaded 747 into Mecca's Grand Mosque killing thousands. Some American came on a political board and said any residual anamosity of such an act 10 years later is just silly and petty. Doubt that would be a popular opinion among Muslims reading.

    What we find is such a building is insensitive and of very bad taste - I think the ignorance of cultural traditions are on the "Cordoba House" groups side. I find it humorous that some Muslims and other political types with their own agenda's are so ademate about builidng only there. It's funny because non-Muslims cannot even step foot in Mecca's Grand Mosque, let alone build something there.

    Was the tower sacred to Christ? All life is sacred to Christ. Not so of infidels though, or am I wrong there?

    See, that's part of the problem with Islam. There's no unity of voice or message. One Muslim may be very peaceful and reject some passages of the Qur'an which call for deaths and killing, etc... as do Christian's with the violent parts of the Old Testament. Ask another 100 Muslims and each have a mix of cultural, geographic, political and religion all jumbled up into something they call being "Islamic". The divergence can be (but not always is) striking. Some want Sharia - others don't have a strong opinion or do not want it. Some believe the Hadith's over the Qur'an, others do not... Whereas, you take a Baptist, a Methodist and a Catholic and you'll find 90% of the tenents of the Bible are agreed upon. The other 10% has to do with practices of their faith, differences in worship, and some concepts of heaven, being saved, and deeds vs. belief. I don't see that commonality is Islam yet - but maybe it's on it's way.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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