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Thread: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

  1. #161
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I guess the Constitution is an inconvenient document to some people...

    Pretty pathetic, if you ask me, that a freedom loving country can be so bigoted and politically correct...

    Thanks MSNBC and MoveOn for dumbing down our country and wiping your ass with the Bill of Rights. 'Freedom of Speech and Assembly (except against Islam)'. Idiots!

    Seriously Hazl, what you'r doing is no different than what they're doing. They're using their CONSTITUTIONAL right to free speech to speak against something, just as you are.
    Obviously, you don't understand what the freedom of speech means, you and Dr. Laura should do some studying. Only the government can infringe on your free speech rights.


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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    I know that, I was being ironic with the fact that he was bitching about people protesting the mosque think the constitution is an inconvenient document when they were doing nothing different than what he was doing, simply exercising free speech. So I was sarcastically rearranging his words to point out he was doing the same thing.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post

    The first statement, hey, it is technically true, you have killed more innocent muslims then AND LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR TO YOU!

    He STATED "Innocent non-Muslims"
    We have more innocent Muslim blood on our hands than AQ has innocent non-Muslim blood on their hands? Bull****.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    We have more innocent Muslim blood on our hands than AQ has innocent non-Muslim blood on their hands? Bull****.
    Do you have any evidence one way or the other?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post

    I would dare say that the majority of people who didn't lose someone in 9/11 are minimally affected by it on an emotional level now.

    .
    Amazing....what a wide devide. You wonder why people on the right don't believe those on the left have a patriotic bone in their bodies?
    Example A.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Thisis the game played that so disappoints me. The extreme effort made to misrepresent every statement into something it isn't. It keeps us divided and causes more pain where understnading might develop.
    Is that why you made this childish, accusatory statement?

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Like I said above, if the klann works better for you, fine.
    Is Barbtx--like me--being accused of being a white supremist, for opposing the Ground Zero mosque?

    The real division takes place, when people are called racists for simply disagreeing with something that all the Libbos support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    You have a point but I would argue that neither analogy is completely accurate, though.
    I'm not saying either is absolutely exactly accurate, I"m saying they're similar. My issue with James previously was he said his example was EXACTLY the same.

    The problem I have with your argument is that it seeks to use scale as a reason to justify the extension of the area of concern over time. If you bring scale into the discussion, then there must be a quantifiable aspect to the argument.

    Thus, my desire to turn it into a stastical math problem is a natural outcropping of your defense. By incorporating scale into your argument, you set the tone for statistical analysis.
    I simply disagree. Scale can be talked about as an abstract without requiring specific numbers and specific points set that tick when it becomes okay or not okay and various things. Simply because you wish to create a hard and fast rule doesn't mean my argument or my views or my opinions must conform to that.

    I would dare say that the majority of people who didn't lose someone in 9/11 are minimally affected by it on an emotional level now.
    I would highly disagree. I would say there is still significantly strong emotions amongst people in relation to 9/11 and still a significant recognition of the day and the occurrence. For example, I know of three couples...myself included....that were nearly going to have their wedding on the second weekend of September and upon looking at the calender and seeing it was September 11th IMMEDIATELY reconsidered due to the emotions and feelings it stirred up instantly and the desire to not have that tied up with the emotions of their wedding. None of those couples lost someone in the attacks or knew someone that did. I can not fathom someone, let alone three sets of couples, 10 years after a drunk driving accident that killed say some person in school that they kind of knew of and had affected them in some way when it initially happened suddenly realizing the day they picked for their wedding coincided with the crash and thus changing it.

    Is the impact of 9/11 still as sharp on people as it was the day of? No, but I'd dare say its still very present and prevelant in many peoples minds still ten years later.

    Thats' part of the reason why the anology works perfectly fo rthis situation, albeit in reverse.

    McDonald's isn't democracy, but it absolutely represents Western ideology and Western values with exactly the same degree of accuracy as a Mosque represents terrorism and terrorist values.
    Alright....

    Where am I saying this Mosque represents terrorism or terrorist values?

    And the exacty same thing is true about the representations of mosques as beign related to 9/11. It is primarily by people attempting to degrade said religion. i.e. not people that are generally attempting to promote the real ideological frameworks of the religion of Islam.
    No, I'm not suggesting mosques directly are related to 9/11. I'm saying ISLAM directly is related to 9/11. I've yet to still see anyone whose shown that it isn't. All I've ever seen is people going "They're mad that we're meddling in their land or that we attacked [random middle eastern country]", however those anger issues all lead back to their religion and their belief that we're invading the "Land of Islam".

    I'm saying Islam is directly involved in the acts of 9/11. I'm saying that rightly or wrongly when many people think of 9/11 and Islam together at once, even people who at other times have a neutral to somewhat positive view of Islam, that it stirs up extremely negative and angry emotions. I'm saying as such having a mosque whose purpose is to be an activist location around 9/11, using its vicinity to 9/11 for its activist purposes, no matter the benevolent intentions (and frankly I question those intentions), is going to cause unneeded additional emotional distress and problems to individuals traveling to what is essentially a historic national site that is unneeded. Additionally, I think such will do MORE harm to the cause of Moderate Islam and acceptance of it in this country than good and thus is detrimental to their supposed cause and to what's best for the nation.

    But Islam is not what caused 9/11. It was a response to that which many people who oppose the West feel is perfectly represented by McDonald's. Which is why I chose that particular company for my analogy.
    Islam didn't cause it. Islam was instrumental in recruiting for it, fabricating a reason for it, motivating it, allowing for the methods that were used, and justifying it after the fact. Again, last I checked McDonalds don't get built because of motivation on the part of the builder to spread democracy, aren't justified in being built because democracy says its okay, not built in a such a way that it's okay because dmeocracy says so, or finds its investors by suggesting that they are doing Democracy's bidding and will have Democracies favor if they assist in building that McDonalds.

    The first McDonald's in Russia was dubbed "a taste of freedom" by many at the time. It had record breaking lines to get a taste of democracy and freedom. I have a vivid memory of it's coverage here when it happened.
    Wonderful. IF a majority of people who were oppressed in Russia somehow felt great emotional distress due to such an advertising campaign and the McDonalds being built there then I'd have said it was tactless to build it there as well.

    And last I checked you can't go into a mosque and order a suicide bomber to go with a side of hijacking.
    Nope, but I'm far more likely to find a tangible example of Islam fueling the purposes, methods, and justifications of a suicide bomber then you're going to be able to find a tangible example of McDonalds actively fueling the purposes, methods, and justifications of someone purposefully spreading democracy.

    But even if we accept your premise...

    It doesn't really change my point. I would be against a McDonalds being opened as a sign of "Freedom" in an area where the majority of the people have been oppressed and feel that opening said McDonalds is hurtful and disrespectful and they don't want it there when they didn't ask for said "Freedom" nor wanted it.

    To my understanding, that wasn't the case in Russia. They were welcoming to it, and indeed it was news reporters and comments by Russians in favor of it that I believe the "taste of freedom" line was dubbed

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthy View Post
    Amazing....what a wide devide. You wonder why people on the right don't believe those on the left have a patriotic bone in their bodies?
    Example A.
    Where'd you get the silly idea that I'm on the left?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Where'd you get the silly idea that I'm on the left?
    Wait; what?! But how can he slam you if you're not on the left? <sob>

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Where'd you get the silly idea that I'm on the left?
    By what you said. Parsing too.
    I would dare say that the majority of people who didn't lose someone in 9/11 are minimally affected by it on an emotional level now.
    I just thought that was a stunner. It still blows me away that that happened to my country. I'm still ticked off.

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