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Thread: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

  1. #141
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    For breakfast I took flour, baking powder, salt, eggs, and milk and mixed them together. I then poured the substance on a hot frying pan with butter. I know what you're thinking, but no, it was not a pancake. It was much larger than any panckae you ever saw and I even added strawberrys and bannanas to the top. I like to call it a community breakfast. Yes, it is that big.
    Yeah. It's still not a mosque.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Rezonator View Post
    There is no such thing as "Radical Islam," and there is no such thing as unicorns, either. It is a fiction. It is a myth. You are wholly uninformed on the subject, or you wouldn't believe in such Islamic propaganda fantasies.
    Gracious, you sure did hit the ground running here. Your post reeks of "And the only good _________ is a dead _________."

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, my analogies are not exactly the same. However, UNLIKE Jamesrage I'm not CLAIMING they're the same.
    Jamesrage's anaolgy is just as applicable to the situation as the one's you have presented are. If his is not applicable and invalid, then your's has the saem flaw.



    Correct. However, I was giving an example of a similiar...not EXACT as was the words James used...situation. The reason I changed portions of it is because to me, SCALE matters. A drunk driving accident that kills 5 people in a single town is not anywhere near the scale of an attack on a massive American building known the world over that killed more than 3,000 people and was a devestating attack upon the country, affecting almost every citizen in some way and is known by almost every citizen even those that weren't alive at the time. That SCALE doesn't compare at all to a drunk driving accident that killed 5 people, so to me relatively immedietely after a drunk driving accident is about the same impact in regards to how touchy of a subject it still is as ten years after 9/11 would be.



    As above, I'm not stating its EXACTLY the same, and again, the SCALE would be greatly different which factors into it.
    You say scale factors in, but you haven't presented any logical arguments for that factoring, especially with regards to geographical distance.

    Except you've missed my comments regarding what I think "right outside" could denote. Here's the issue, I am not familiar with whether or not Pearl Harbor is in a large city or not. I was there 12 years ago. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t. I’ve already explained why I think within a few blocks in a large city is essentially “right outside” of an area. If it was down the road walking distance away from Pearl Harbor my statement would remain the same. Right Outside is within the vicinity of the location thought of as the Pearl Harbor area. To me, the blocks surrounding and serviced by the World Trade Center subway are is generally the World Trade Center area.
    Then you are equivocationg on the term "right outside" to create a subjective range for your arguments to have a perceived merit that is not inhrenetly present in the argument. The mosque is not "right outside" that's a gross distortion of reality used to create an emotional argument, not a logical one.






    Japanese history, specifically the mentality of their emperors, was instrumental in the actions that caused pearl harbor. Shinto, to my understanding, was not involved in the decision to, justification for, or methods used to attack Pearl Harbor.

    Actually, Shintoism was teh cause of Pearl Harbor and the militarization of Japan in general. That's why we banned State Shintoism in Japan after WWII and Hirohito had to make a pronouncement that he was human and not a god after WWII.


    Of course its supported by logic based on what I'm arguing which is the respect and tact shown to those affected by the attacks. Scale greatly matters and logically is a part of it. Something that is not remember 5 years ago doesn't matter with regards to the affecting emotions based on respect and tact shown because no ones remembering it to be offended. Something that IS remembered 5 years later would matter.
    It's not based on logic, it's based on emotion. Just because something is remembered doesn't mean that it justifies the use of equivocation, distortions, and moving the goal posts when making analogies. Especially when one invokes the name of the indivudal victims/sutvivors emotional reactions.

    The problem with your analogies is that they all use the emotional reactions of the victims familiies as their basis, but they assume that the number of victim's families extant will affect their emotional reactions regarding time passed and distance from "ground zero".

    That's pure nonsense that has no foundation in logic at all.

    It doesn't matter if it's 5 people or 50 people killed in the DUI accident. Teh numebr of victims is does not affect the necessary distance and time passing for tactfullness to be present. If 2 blocks is too close and 10 years too little time when 3,000 peopel are killed, it should follow that tehse distances and times are constant regardless of how the peopel are killed and regardless of how many because the EMOTIONAL reaction for the individual would be constant for those affected.

    i.e. the family members of the 5 peopel killed in the DUI accident should be just as affected by a bar being built two blocks away from the location of the accident and ten years later as the family members of the 3000+ People killed on 9/11 are by a mosque being built two blocks away and 10 years later.

    That's why your attempts to use scale as a justification are not logically based. The basis for the arguemtn is the emotional reaction, and it pretends that time and distance away are dependent on the number of victims involved. This premise is not logically supported.



    False, but now you veer off from it. McDonalds is not associated with the American government, has a hand in any of the actions going on across the seas in regards to wars, and other such things. McDonalds != Democracy. Indeed, one can find McDonalds in locations that are far from Democracies.
    McDonald's ooften crop up just before democracy becoems established in a country. Check out Hungary, Yugoslavia, the USSR.

    You were doing well until you reached with McDonalds trying to equate McDonalds as directly related to the doctrine and belief of Democracy as a mosque is directly related to the doctrine and belief of Islam.
    True or false: McDonalds is often used as a symbol of American ideals.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #144
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Yeah. It's still not a mosque.
    No, of course not. Muslims are just entering to worship and pray to their God. Which means it just coincidentally fits the very definition of mosque. I really wish I were capable of such self decption. BTW, Larger and more modern mosques have become centers for the community and offer many social activities. including Gynasiums, health clinics, etc. Well, all except this one.. Well, at least to the more liberal of Americans.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    No, of course not. Muslims are just entering to worship and pray to their God. Which means it just coincidentally fits the very definition of mosque. I really wish I were capable of such self decption. BTW, Larger and more modern mosques have become centers for the community and offer many social activities. including Gynasiums, health clinics, etc. Well, all except this one.. Well, at least to the more liberal of Americans.
    technically it's not a Mousque, but I fail to understand why it matters.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #146
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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    No, of course not. Muslims are just entering to worship and pray to their God. Which means it just coincidentally fits the very definition of mosque. I really wish I were capable of such self decption. BTW, Larger and more modern mosques have become centers for the community and offer many social activities. including Gynasiums, health clinics, etc. Well, all except this one.. Well, at least to the more liberal of Americans.
    Surely you are not saying anywhere people gather to pray is perforce a house of worship?

    It gives them a place to pray. There are two mosques in that vicinity that are full on a regular basis. One is closer to Ground Zero than the Islamic Cultural Center in Manhattan would be. Are you going to object to that actual mosque?

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Surely you are not saying anywhere people gather to pray is perforce a house of worship?

    It gives them a place to pray. There are two mosques in that vicinity that are full on a regular basis. One is closer to Ground Zero than the Islamic Cultural Center in Manhattan would be. Are you going to object to that actual mosque?
    Dunno. Let's look at the defintion of mosque:
    a Muslim place of worship

    So let's break it down. Is it a place? Are Muslims involved? Will Muslims be worshipping there?

    It gives them a place to pray. There are two mosques in that vicinity that are full on a regular basis. One is closer to Ground Zero than the Islamic Cultural Center in Manhattan would be. Are you going to object to that actual mosque?
    Exactly Correct. And Rauf has stated that this place will take the overflow from the other mosques. What do you think he meant by the word "other"?
    Last edited by buck; 08-23-10 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Your post reeks of "And the only good _________ is a dead _________."
    Unfortunately, that was generated by your own mind. That's not what my post said at all.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Dunno. Let's look at the defintion of mosque:
    a Muslim place of worship

    So let's break it down. Is it a place? Are Muslims involved? Will Muslims be worshipping there?


    Exactly Correct. And Rauf has stated that this place will take the overflow from the other mosques. What do you think he meant by the word "other"?
    The're trying to change the language to try and change minds. AP and who knows who else, has suggested we start calling it a Culture Center near Ground Zero, instead of a Mosque at Ground Zero.

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    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    LOL Sarah is going to be there.
    What about Glenn's Constitutional rights? What about the incorrect facts that people are getting from MSNBC about his rally? They have called it a Tea Party event that will be filled with hate and Obama bashing. Those are total lies according to Glenn. It is supposed to be a non political event to bring people together. no signs and bring your kids.
    If you say something like "Yea, that's what Glenn says" I'll just say "yea, that's what the Imam says."
    I'm just wondering why it's ok to protest Glenn but it's somehow uncontitutional and bigotted to protest the building of a mosgue so close to ground zero that it was damaged on 9/11.
    Also their original planned opening was to be on a "special" day. 9/11/2011, 10 yrs to the day we were hit by Islamic terrorists.
    awesome......i have some swampland for sale, if you believe the event will be non-political, according to glenn. that's a hoot.

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