Page 10 of 65 FirstFirst ... 891011122060 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 649

Thread: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

  1. #91
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    I don't know if religions can really be blamed for the actions of man. Religions are just abstract ideals and stories made up by people. The use of religions is totally up to the individual themselves. Religions do not act, religions cannot act; only man acts. Any given religion can be made violent and any given religion can be made peaceful. It's all how the individual chooses to act. If not religion, we'll come up with other excuses for our actions; it's not like religion is unique in this charge.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #92
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    But people use all religions in just this manner(and opens up the KKK and abortion clinic bombing comparisons).
    And did you not read where I said if something happened for similar reasons on a similar scale with the KKK and it was likely people would react similarly to the building of a church in said area that I'd find it incredibly tactless and douchy to build a church there whose purpose is to use said attacks as a springboard for "building bridges"?

    Go ahead and make the comparisons. The threats of doing so aren't some bogeyman that's going to scare me off my belief because unlike the assumption people keep making, my belief isn't based on some hatred for Islam or Muslims.

    It is also not the fault of the religion, nor of those who do not use the religion in this manner.
    Absolutely true.

    Which is, again, why I say the anger is misplaced.
    Which again, i say it isn't. You don't build something somewhere that is obviously going to inflame people and then say "I'm building to build bridges" when the people you need to build bridges too are the very people you're pissing the **** off every step of the way and are actually just FURTHER widening the gap from.

  3. #93
    User Rezonator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    08-26-10 @ 12:13 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    9

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    A twisted version of Islam (like Bush said)
    There is no "twisted version of Islam." There is no "radical Islam" vs. "moderate Islam." That is a fiction, and it's protective Islamic propaganda.


  4. #94
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Where did I say "mainstream" Islam. Fundamentalist Christianity isn't "mainstream" christianity, its still Christianity.
    I totally disagree. The minute a fundamentalist shoots a doctor, bombs a clinic, or bashes a gay person, then he ceases to be a true Christian.

    That's the point. -- Calling yourself Christian and actually acting like one are two different things.

    Al Qeada may read the Koran, but they do not represent Islam.

    Al Quada follows an extremely fundamentalist version of Islam and uses it to justify extremely twisted things. That doesn't magically make it not Islam.
    Um... if they're misinterpreting the Koran, twisting it for their own political hateful purposes, then yeah it sort of does. Not magically, but logically.

  5. #95
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, I did, as a means of proving the idiocy in suggesting that 9/11 isn't tied in at all to Islam.



    No, it had a direct point. To counter the notion that Islam had nothing to do with connection to 9/11



    Exactly. That is what I'm doing. Islam was instrumental in the 9/11 attacks. As such, when combining "Muslim" and "9/11" it instills negative emotions into many people. By having a mosque whose entire purpose is to capitalize on 9/11 and its proximity to ground zero to try and perform whatever purpose its trying to perform, being so publicized and near it, that people visiting what is essentially in my mind a National Memorial are instantly being struck with those two triggers. I find doing so when its unneeded to be tactles and wrong. Moreso than that, I think doing so when you're trying to proclaim you're purpose is to "build bridges" makes ones true intentions EXTREMELY questionable.
    It isn't tied to 9/11 any more than McVey and Okl. City is to Christianity. So, I had your logic accurately pegged, and have shown it flawed. There is nomore insult to building a mosque than to build a Christina Church in OKl. City. None.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #96
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    That's a ridiculous notion.

    You're telling me that a 3rd generation Muslim living in America and someone born and raised in Saudi Arabia by highly religious parents are going to have exactly the same views with regards to what their holy books mean and imply and the interpritation of its rules and edicts?

  7. #97
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    09-24-12 @ 02:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Rezonator View Post
    There is no "twisted version of Islam." There is no "radical Islam" vs. "moderate Islam." That is a fiction, and it's protective Islamic propaganda.

    Great, more fringe-rigties.

    DP takes a -1 hit to critical thought.

  8. #98
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not a personal attack. I'm asking, WTF business is it of yours and WTF can you legally and justly do about it? Other than crying about a mosque in your oatmeal. Can you answer the question or can we just assume that you have nothing but feigned outrage at some mosque? Yeah, thought so.

    Ok tough guy....First off

    WTF Business is it of yours?
    it is my business because I live in the freest country on Earth, and have a right to declare my opinion, and discuss anything I wish to discuss. Your little snarky fascist comments aside.

    WTF can you legally and justly do about it?
    Love the progressive bent in your question here Ikari. As if the Mosque of conquest that you so love were to bow to public pressure and move, that would be 'un' just. What a load. I have the right to speak out against it and lobby my politicians to put pressure on them to move it, or pursue any legal ways to block it. That is America buddy. if you don't like it well, you know what to do.

    You have a very "french" definition of personal attack buddy. I asked ya some questions; questions which are pertinent to the discussion.
    Ooooh I am so hurt. I just internet tough guy's. Listen, when you have an argument based in some sort of civil tone, then maybe we can get somewhere, until then all I see is a kid in mom's basement with a puffed out chest because you can type....

    Since when do we require any religious building to host other religions?
    We don't, and were it not for the absurd claim of Imam Rauf that he is building it as some sort of outreach. It is not.

    Since when do we limit what they can talk about?
    In this country there are walls between religion and political speech from the pulpit, although you really wouldn't be able to tell considering the last election cycle, but they are there, a church can lose tax status if they cross the line.

    That's it. Do you actually have answers for this or is all we're going to get is "Oh noes...a mosque...Sharia law.....sky...falling..."

    Me thinks you are emulating a bit too much hazelnut.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #99
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I totally disagree. The minute a fundamentalist shoots a doctor, bombs a clinic, or bashes a gay person, then he ceases to be a true Christian.
    He may st op being a true Christian in your eyes, but that doesn't stop the act from being motivated by Christianity. He may've acted outside of what a Christian should, but his motivation was still Christianiaty.

    That's the point. -- Calling yourself Christian and actually acting like one are two different things.
    That's wonderful. Let me say it for like the 10th time. The fact they consider themselves muslism is irrelevant to my point.

    Al Qeada may read the Koran, but they do not represent Islam.
    I never said they represent Islam. But they absolutely use Islam as the basis for much of their thoughts and actions, even if its a crazy interpritation of it.

  10. #100
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:38 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,344
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Protesters rally against, for planned Islamic center in New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And did you not read where I said if something happened for similar reasons on a similar scale with the KKK and it was likely people would react similarly to the building of a church in said area that I'd find it incredibly tactless and douchy to build a church there whose purpose is to use said attacks as a springboard for "building bridges"?

    Go ahead and make the comparisons. The threats of doing so aren't some bogeyman that's going to scare me off my belief because unlike the assumption people keep making, my belief isn't based on some hatred for Islam or Muslims.



    Absolutely true.



    Which again, i say it isn't. You don't build something somewhere that is obviously going to inflame people and then say "I'm building to build bridges" when the people you need to build bridges too are the very people you're pissing the **** off every step of the way and are actually just FURTHER widening the gap from.
    But those being "inflamed" are being "inflamed" for illogical and entirely personal reasons. I tend to see this argument as very much a case of PC gone wild. I am not saying the anger is not real, but the people building this "mosque" are not terrorists, are not responsible for 9/11, the religion is not guilty for 9/11. I cannot stop people from being "inflamed", but I would not other people's let irrational emotion effect my decisions.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

Page 10 of 65 FirstFirst ... 891011122060 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •