The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

Objective Voice said:

Then I'd suggest that those who oppose this mosque and have this fear of some sort of Muslim "hostile takeover of the country" stick to those facets of Islam most practised here in the West/America and stop going off on these wild tangants the give the false impression that every Muslim is a jihadist! It's insane to think so!! Such hatred is very much on par with the degree of hatred this nation experienced during the Civil Rights era only instead of it being whites against blacks, it's now directed towards Muslims and Hispanics.

While some concerns are legitimate, the outright hate is not!!! STOP THE FOOLISHNESS!!!

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I dont disagree. My objection to the construction of the mosque has nothing to do with the muslim faith. Since I have been posting here I have recognized and argued that not all muslims are terrorists. That being said...I think there ARE legitimate reasons to oppose the construction of THIS mosque at THIS location.

VanceMack said:

That was another huge shocker for several of my fellow soldiers...they were SHOCKED when they were treated as badly as they were. Most of them thought, hey...we are going to the land of our brothers. Umm...not.

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Poor them, must have been a surprise.
Many Arab Muslims have a superiority complex when it comes to Asians and Africans.

Probably why I cry laughing when Islamophobes try and whip up fear over a United Muslim order
No way will a Black Muslim listen to a Asian and vice versa and both would rather gouge out their eyes than follow the orders of Arabs :shrug:

It gets worst in the West where we are all forced together. We avoid one another if we can.

Laila said:

In some yes. No matter what I do, I'd get stoned.
I'm black. I'd probably get into **** in some Arab countries but Islam doesn't sanction that, culture does.

Islam is also enforced in other Muslim countries where I could walk around and not get stoned for reading. The interpretations of Islam is influenced by culture hence why it differs so much when one looks at the difference races within the Muslim population and then further into the cultures.

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And BTW...thanks for your comments. I think if more people understood that...well...it would help people to see things differently. I think people autorespond to the worst in all of us. thus all catholic preists are child molesters and all muslims are terrorists.

Laila said:

I love the history in many Muslim countries but dislike the people. I avoid many for that reason.

I hated Dubai, it's not a good place to visit unless your more the beach and sun type person. I can't swim and I don't need a tan so I pretty much spent 2 weeks bored out of my mind visiting tall ass buildings

Syria tho is a beautiful country, it's steeped in history. Malaysia is on my list to visit as well.

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I've actually been to Dubai...very sandy. There's sand everywhere!! But it's also very modern (as if you couldn't figure that out from all the images of construction taking place there .) Still, the landscape is very appealing; very pretty countryside. I think most Americans would be surprised to learn just how westernized Dubai really is. There are several American-style fast-food restaurants there, luxury hotels, and you should see some of the cars many of the rich young Arab kids drive!! What some rich kid here in the U.S. drives would be put to shame!! U.S. = Lexis, Navigator, Escalaid; Dubai = Mercadies, BMW, Porche!!! :shock:

I think I would have enjoyed my visit there more if I could have gone to other places off the main drag. But Ramadan was around the corner and us Westerners were discouraged from treading off the beaten path for concern we'd interver in local religious customs. (Admittedly, I didn't quite understand it back then, but with age comes maturity and wisdom.)

spud_meister said:

you sure?

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I'm pretty sure. If not that one than another one that only turned out looking like a cross because of the lighting. I admit, this looks pretty real.

Barbbtx said:

I'm pretty sure. If not that one than another one that only turned out looking like a cross because of the lighting. I admit, this looks pretty real.

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'cause it looks like a pipe organ with a cross on it, i'm sure there's photos where there is an illusion, but i don't think it's this one.

Objective Voice said:

Then I'd suggest that those who oppose this mosque and have this fear of some sort of Muslim "hostile takeover of the country" stick to those facets of Islam most practised here in the West/America and stop going off on these wild tangants the give the false impression that every Muslim is a jihadist! It's insane to think so!! Such hatred is very much on par with the degree of hatred this nation experienced during the Civil Rights era only instead of it being whites against blacks, it's now directed towards Muslims and Hispanics.

While some concerns are legitimate, the outright blind hate is not!!! STOP THE FOOLISHNESS!!!

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It is not those in opposition that are fomenting this chasm. These are claims of the supporters that no matter how many times, and by how many in opposition say that they are not against all Muslims, or opposed to their rights, it is ignored, and this narrative is attached. Talk about misrepresentation.


j-mac

Barbbtx said:

I'm pretty sure. If not that one than another one that only turned out looking like a cross because of the lighting. I admit, this looks pretty real.

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I think actually you are remembering some one's campaign commercial. I vaguely remember the details, but it was much more subtle than this. Might have been a Bush commercial in 2000 or 2004, I honestly forget now.

texmaster said:

LOL No its not the topic. Read the OP. He said Obama was born a Muslim and converted to Christianity. How is that false?

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Because one of Obama's parents was Muslim and the other was Christian. Why aren't his detractors saying that he was born Christian? The answer is obvious. They want to pin him as a Muslim, in order to commit character assassination on him. Here is how it goes:

Yes, Obama is a Christian, but he was born a Muslim (Let it sink in that those who attacked on 911 are also Muslim, and let a connection be made that Obama was also born of the same religion. That way, you get to assassinate Obama and moderate Muslims at the same time. Two character assassinations for the price of one. But wait, there's more. Act now, and you will also get to believe that Obama was actually born in Kenya. So, in this limited time offer, you get "Obama is a Muslim", "all Muslims are terrorists", and "Obama is not a US citizen". But hurry. Act now, before the truth catches up to these lies.

- Billy Mayes' Satanic evil twin

:mrgreen:

texmaster said:

What did I cherry pick? Do you even understand the entire purpose of this conversation is to discover how Islam views children?

She has produced no links at all to back up her claims. None. Yet you accept what she said on faith. How does that make for a good debate?

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Look, she is a Muslim. What better authority to discuss the Islamic faith than with someone of that religion? My take on this is very simple, very straight-forward:

Either you're going to read/listen and learn from someone of that religion...

...OR...

You're just going to ignore the knowledge she brings to the table and stay true to your personal prejudices and political biasness.

Your choice...

j-mac said:

It is not those in opposition that are fomenting this chasm. These are claims of the supporters that no matter how many times, and by how many in opposition say that they are not against all Muslims, or opposed to their rights, it is ignored, and this narrative is attached. Talk about misrepresentation.


j-mac

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It's not misrepresentation when people are now talking about their objections to implementation of Shariah Law or asking where the money is coming from or speaking out against the Imam and his wife's basic beliefs. The issue started out being about sensativity toward 9/11 victims and their survivors. I can even extend that concern to thos first-responders and volunteers who risked their lives and sacraficed their time and energy during the rescue, recovery and cleanup efforts. I am not so heartless that I don't feel their pain and sorrow in all this. But when you've gone beyond being sympathetic or empathetic for them, when you've gone beyond respecting their basic legal and human rights and you've stepped into their religious freedom and you espouse hate and inject fear into the debate based on this notion that ALL Muslims are evil and are coming here only to subvert our laws and replace them with their own, when you lump ALL Muslims under the same umbrella, when you use snippets of their Holy Book to champion your hate, THAT IS WRONG!!! And as an American AND as an African-American who has experienced racial bias, who recalls events from the Civil Rights era, who can see where treading on the rights of peaceful Muslims here can only have a davastating backlash for our troops and Ambassadors abroad in Middle-Eastern Muslim countries, YES! I stand against the oppressors!!!

This is my country, too. And I will not sit quietly by on the sidelines and let our President nor American-Muslims be railroaded by people who are clearly blinded by hate and fear. Open your eyes and try to see what I see...

It's okay to be concerned about what you think may happen, but leave room for honest dialog. Otherwise, your hate will do nothing but lead this country once again down a very dark path.

texmaster said:

Uh Bubba, I've already said Obama is a Christian now. Thanks for once again not reading the thread before making a statement.

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Okay...so I ask you again...

What's the point of continuing this debate? What point are you trying to prove by upholding Rev. F. Grahams position, "born a Muslim, always a Muslim"? If you're admitting that the President is a Christian, then that would mean you disagree with the Rev's point of view. As such, you agree that the Presidnet has renounced Islam. So, what's the point of continuing this debate? It's foolish!!! By your own admission, you contridict yourself.

Objective Voice said:

I've actually been to Dubai...very sandy. There's sand everywhere!! But it's also very modern (as if you couldn't figure that out from all the images of construction taking place there .) Still, the landscape is very appealing; very pretty countryside. I think most Americans would be surprised to learn just how westernized Dubai really is. There are several American-style fast-food restaurants there, luxury hotels, and you should see some of the cars many of the rich young Arab kids drive!! What some rich kid here in the U.S. drives would be put to shame!! U.S. = Lexis, Navigator, Escalaid; Dubai = Mercadies, BMW, Porche!!! :shock:

I think I would have enjoyed my visit there more if I could have gone to other places off the main drag. But Ramadan was around the corner and us Westerners were discouraged from treading off the beaten path for concern we'd interver in local religious customs. (Admittedly, I didn't quite understand it back then, but with age comes maturity and wisdom.)

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The only thing inconvenient about Ramadan for us was finding someplace to eat! Most of the businesses still ran as usual (because capitalism really is the name of the game). I also really enjoyed Dubai far more than Abu Dhabi. Some GREAT cigar shops there...

j-mac said:

It is not those in opposition that are fomenting this chasm. These are claims of the supporters that no matter how many times, and by how many in opposition say that they are not against all Muslims, or opposed to their rights, it is ignored, and this narrative is attached. Talk about misrepresentation.


j-mac

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Who's misrepresenting? All you have to do is watch the news or go online and see the "protesters" holding signs with hateful words on them about Muslims. There's a difference between a sign that read, "Insensativity to 9/11 Victims - No Mosque!" and one that reads, "Muslims = Jihad = Terrorist - No Mosque!". I've seen both; the latter is very disturbing.

Objective Voice said:

It's not misrepresentation when people are now talking about their objections to implementation of Shariah Law or asking where the money is coming from or speaking out against the Imam and his wife's basic beliefs. The issue started out being about sensativity toward 9/11 victims and their survivors. I can even extend that concern to thos first-responders and volunteers who risked their lives and sacraficed their time and energy during the rescue, recovery and cleanup efforts. I am not so heartless that I don't feel their pain and sorrow in all this. But when you've gone beyond being sympathetic or empathetic for them, when you've gone beyond respecting their basic legal and human rights and you've stepped into their religious freedom and you espouse hate and inject fear into the debate based on this notion that ALL Muslims are evil and are coming here only to subvert our laws and replace them with their own, when you lump ALL Muslims under the same umbrella, when you use snippets of their Holy Book to champion your hate, THAT IS WRONG!!! And as an American AND as an African-American who has experienced racial bias, who recalls events from the Civil Rights era, who can see where treading on the rights of peaceful Muslims here can only have a davastating backlash for our troops and Ambassadors abroad in Middle-Eastern Muslim countries, YES! I stand against the oppressors!!!
This is my country, too. And I will not sit quietly by on the sidelines and let our President nor American-Muslims be railroaded by people who are clearly blinded by hate and fear. Open your eyes and try to see what I see...
It's okay to be concerned about what you think may happen, but leave room for honest dialog. Otherwise, your hate will do nothing but lead this country once again down a very dark path.

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In your very 'righteous' indignation you MIGHT want to consider that there are MUSLIMS who have spoken out against the location of THIS mosque. There ARE actually intelligent, free thinking people that can DISAGREE with you and not because they are evil hate mongers. Just...you know...food for thought.

Vance,

I understand that, too. I see both sides of this issue and I know there have been some Muslims who either don't like Imam Rauf personally and think that his intensions for building this mosque aren't genuine, or they truly are sensative to the feelings and concerns of the 9/11 victims. I've heard both sides on the matter. But my concern here in and of itself is neither solely for the feelings of the 9/11 victims nor the persecution of innocent Muslims. My overall concern is for this country and abidding by our laws and customs. I just don't think this nation can stomach the hipocrasy that would come from denying this mosque to be built. Therefore, if I could speak to Imam Raul, my suggest would be to allow the worship hall to be non-denominational OR build two separate worshop halls in the Community Center - one strictly Islamic, the other non-demoninational. This way he doesn't lose face on the grounds of being a community/religious uniter while also providing a separate place of worship for Muslims. Our military does this all the time. Even the Pentagon has one place of worship that is "shared" by members of all religious faiths. I think this would solve the problem.

Objective Voice said:

Vance,

I understand that, too. I see both sides of this issue and I know there have been some Muslims who either don't like Imam Rauf personally and think that his intensions for building this mosque aren't genuine, or they truly are sensative to the feelings and concerns of the 9/11 victims. I've heard both sides on the matter. But my concern here in and of itself is neither solely for the feelings of the 9/11 victims nor the persecution of innocent Muslims. My overall concern is for this country and abidding by our laws and customs. I just don't think this nation can stomach the hipocrasy that would come from denying this mosque to be built. Therefore, if I could speak to Imam Raul, my suggest would be to allow the worship hall to be non-denominational OR build two separate worshop halls in the Community Center - one strictly Islamic, the other non-demoninational. This way he doesn't lose face on the grounds of being a community/religious uniter while also providing a separate place of worship for Muslims.

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I think that would be totally reasonable. I think Governor Patterson offered a totally reasonable alternative. I think if Imam Rauf is sincere about his intent he could build the center in Kansas and it would have the same intent. I dont know the man so I cant speak to his motives. Personally...I think sometimes there are things that are just wrong and its OK to take a stand, voice an opinion, and then move forward. If approval is finally given and they can come up with the funds, then I imagine the thing will be built.

I read an article the other day on a mosque that is already there and has been downtown for decades with no problems. I dont think MOST PEOPLE are objecting to Muslims or the Mosque because it is a Muslim house of worship.

At the end of the day we ARE a nation built on the rule of law. If the approval is given and if they can find workers and suppliers (and financial backing) the mosque will be built.

Vance,

Agreed. I just think this entire issue has been clouded in blind hate. I see this nation going backwards as far as social/racial/religious tolerences are concerned and that worries me more than the petty political slants that has been thrown at this issue. We're in a war in an equally divided Muslim held country, barely out of another one and may have to face-down yet another Muslim held country (Iran). I just don't think it's wise to "go there" right now (see my rant about 2 posts above for clarification :mrgreen . The stakes are much too high.

I vote we close this subject for good on the boards. How many more ways can we argue this point?

jambalaya said:

I vote we close this subject for good on the boards. How many more ways can we argue this point?

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six...definitely six...

So does the OP have a point other than people need a "sperm-donor" to be born? No? Ok well then thread done.

spud_meister said:

you sure?

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It's not a real cross because nobody's nailed to it? :shrug:

In the immortal words of Lionel Richie, Now that we have come to the end of our rainbow...

"I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."

So to the beginning post...a CNN (Not FOX NEWS, ya jagoff...) reporter ASKED THE REVERAND a question...he answered with the above answer...

so what is it about THAT RESPONSE was worthy of this many comments, INCLUDING comments like "the apple has fallen very far from the tree" and negative comments about reverend Graham himself...

VanceMack said:

In the immortal words of Lionel Richie, Now that we have come to the end of our rainbow...

"I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."

So to the beginning post...a CNN (Not FOX NEWS, ya jagoff...) reporter ASKED THE REVERAND a question...he answered with the above answer...

so what is it about THAT RESPONSE was worthy of this many comments, INCLUDING comments like "the apple has fallen very far from the tree" and negative comments about reverend Graham himself...

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yes, his whole answer was designed to do nothing but alleviate the fears about obama being a muslim.

Objective Voice said:

Who's misrepresenting? All you have to do is watch the news or go online and see the "protesters" holding signs with hateful words on them about Muslims. There's a difference between a sign that read, "Insensativity to 9/11 Victims - No Mosque!" and one that reads, "Muslims = Jihad = Terrorist - No Mosque!". I've seen both; the latter is very disturbing.

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The media is misrepresenting or at the very least they are only pandering to one side.
All I hear is about the protestors is Anti-Muslim, Islamaphobic,Obamaphobic or both, Bigoted, Hatemongers, Fearmongers, Right Wing Racists, they don't understand the Constitution, don't they believe in freedom of religion, they're listening to Palin,Rush, Newt, Fox is ginning up the hate, they are misinformed ..........on and on
Never having a dialoge about real reasons the Mosque is opposed by so many.
Never questioning the motives of those who are so adament about building the Mosque on that very spot and none other will satisfy them. Why there?? Because they have a right? Is that the best excuse they can come up with?

Why does the media question the motives of the protestors but not those in favor of it?

liblady said:

yes, his whole answer was designed to do nothing but alleviate the fears about obama being a muslim.

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Not sure I understand your response. I listened to the actual CNN interview. Graham wasnt asked to DEFEND Obama...he was asked why there where so many people confused about his religous status. He wasnt trying to fix things for him...he simply answered the question...and for what its worth, its a pretty fair response. He didnt say...well...REGARDLESS of what he SAYS...this is what he IS. What he said was "here is why there is the confussion, and this is what he says".