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The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

VanceMack said:
The simple fact is that Grahams comments were 100% accurate. He WAS born to a Muslim faith...by the fathers bloodline...and then Graham goes on to SAY...right there...that Obama himself has renounced the Muslim faith and embraced Christianity...a claim which Graham SUPPORTED!

But the idiotic kneejerk liberal left has but ONE response any time The One is involved...

Pathetic
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But it's not a kneejerk reaction. It's dispelling the negative connotation that comes from Rev. Graham's pronouncement linking the President's birth-right lineage to the Muslim faith which in the minds of many is closely linked to radical Muslims.

Objective Voice said:
"Once a Muslim, always a Muslim!"

No matter what the President says, it has been firmly planted in the minds of many that he is a Muslim. And in many of those minds, Muslim = radicalism = extremists = terrorist!
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That's what's so dangerous about the Rev.'s lack of full, unequivacal support here. He may have stated historical fact where lineage within the Muslim faith is concerned, but he didn't do a thing to tone down the fears most have concerning the apparent false link between President Obama and radical Muslims. As a fellow Christian, I'd be wrong for not coming to the President's defense here.

Hate his policies if you must, but until his conduct betrays his Christian faith which I say there is no evidence of that to date, I don't think we can say the man's choosen religious faith is anything other than what he claims it to be - Christianity.
 
Objective Voice said:
But it's not a kneejerk reaction. It's dispelling the negative connotation that comes from Rev. Graham's pronouncement linking the President's birth-right lineage to the Muslim faith which in the minds of many is closely linked to radical Muslims.
That's what's so dangerous about the Rev.'s lack of full, unequivacal support here. He may have stated historical fact where lineage within the Muslim faith is concerned, but he didn't do a thing to tone down the fears most have concerning the apparent false link between President Obama and radical Muslims. As a fellow Christian, I'd be wrong for not coming to the President's defense here.
Hate his policies if you must, but until his conduct betrays his Christian faith which I say there is no evidence of that to date, I don't think we can say the man's choosen religious faith is anything other than what he claims it to be - Christianity.
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The 'kneejerk' response is to bleat the name of Fox News in response to any and everything that comes out with regard to 'the one'.

The simple fact of the matter is Graham stated quite clearly...He believes Obama is a declared Christian and therfore...IS a Christian. What OTHERS may or may not believe about the muslim faith is immaterial.

Obama is not a Christian....or a Muslim...he is a "whatever gets me your vote".
 
You are entitled to your opinion. However, I am curious what religious faith do you believe Reagon, Clinton or both/either Bush belonged to and, in your opinion, were any of them claiming such in order to gain "your vote"?

And for the record, I'm not blasting FoxNews on this issue at all. I saw Rev. F. Graham make his comments on CNN.
 
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Objective Voice said:
You are entitled to your opinion. However, I am curious what religious faith do you believe Reagon, Clinton or both/either Bush belonged to and, in your opinion, were any of them claiming such in order to gain "your vote"?

And for the record, I'm not blasting FoxNews on this issue at all. I saw Rev. F. Graham make his comments on CNN.
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Obviously my response wasnt TO you regarding the Fox News comment.

I think if you look at how people live their lives BEFORE they are in the public eye and how they live their faith you get a good general feel of what they really are. MOST politicians 'find God' right before an election...pandering to congregations for votes.

Obama...well...he sat in a hate filled race mongers church for 20 years and denied hearing any of it. I believe him of of course...I'll take him at his word. But only because I doubt he was paying much attention. OR...he is lying and he was full on engaged...you choose...hell...I dont care.
 
ludahai said:
We don't pray to saints, we ask them to "intercede", or pray, on our behalf. We also ask friends to do the same. What is the difference.

If you don't care to fix your own ignorance of Catholicism, don't come on here and spout it out as if it were pure unadulterated fact...
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Here is the problem I have with Catholics asking the dead to intercede on their behalf. Only Christ rose from the dead (Maybe Enoch did too). Everybody else, Mary and the Saints included, sleep until the time of the end of days. So, basically, what is happening is that Catholics are asking dead people to intercede for them, which can't happen because they are..... uh..... dead.
 
Objective Voice said:
You are entitled to your opinion. However, I am curious what religious faith do you believe Reagon, Clinton or both/either Bush belonged to and, in your opinion, were any of them claiming such in order to gain "your vote"?

And for the record, I'm not blasting FoxNews on this issue at all. I saw Rev. F. Graham make his comments on CNN.
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I was wondering exactly that, myself. And if everybody thinks that ALL politicians lie about anything just to get elected well then Obama is just like the rest. Why are they trying to make it into some big deal?
 
BDBoop said:
I was wondering exactly that, myself. And if everybody thinks that ALL politicians lie about anything just to get elected well then Obama is just like the rest. Why are they trying to make it into some big deal?
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i'm just amazed that we are still talking about obama's heritage. rush et al sure are doing a great job. disgusting.
 
BDBoop said:
I was wondering exactly that, myself. And if everybody thinks that ALL politicians lie about anything just to get elected well then Obama is just like the rest. Why are they trying to make it into some big deal?
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Ahhhhh....But all the hype was that he was different. He was the one to bring a change wasn't he? Isn't that what all the fainting was about? Now he is the same as all the rest....Yeah, I hear ya.

j-mac
 
liblady said:
i'm just amazed that we are still talking about obama's heritage. rush et al sure are doing a great job. disgusting.
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Yeah, let's just focus on kitty cats, and flowers.....That's all we need, some good distractions.


j-mac
 
liblady said:
i'm just amazed that we are still talking about obama's heritage. rush et al sure are doing a great job. disgusting.
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It's easier for the hoi polloi to grasp than policy, I guess. :shrug:
 
BDBoop said:
I was wondering exactly that, myself. And if everybody thinks that ALL politicians lie about anything just to get elected well then Obama is just like the rest. Why are they trying to make it into some big deal?
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My greater question is when someone like Rev Graham is ASKED A QUESTION and then he DARES to actually ANSWER the question honestly in a way that is actually SUPPORTIVE of Obamas own representation of himself as a Christian, why do so many people freak out AT Rev Grahams response? Just what is it about what he said or the article in general that is even worthy of ANY of this?
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, let's just focus on kitty cats, and flowers.....That's all we need, some good distractions.
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Maybe you can answer the question of why Obama's religion matters?
 
VanceMack said:
My greater question is when someone like Rev Graham is ASKED A QUESTION and then he DARES to actually ANSWER the question honestly in a way that is actually SUPPORTIVE of Obamas own representation of himself as a Christian, why do so many people freak out AT Rev Grahams response? Just what is it about what he said or the article in general that is even worthy of ANY of this?
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Obama and "Muslim" in anyway that might imply some how he is/was/has ties too creates a PC firestorm of indignation by people "Above such partisan hackery". Or, as I like to view it, self-righteous elitism.
 
Coronado said:
Maybe you can answer the question of why Obama's religion matters?
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It helps explain how he thinks and what he believes in. It's a way for people to get to know a person they only see on TV.

Remember the "Palin's CRAZY CHURCH" crap? Don't recall many here defending Obama jumping to Palin's D... but then it's OKAY to attack her ;)
 
liblady said:
i'm just amazed that we are still talking about obama's heritage. rush et al sure are doing a great job. disgusting.
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I hear ya, although it almost makes a welcome break from THE SKY IS FALLING!!! of the Islamic Cultural Center in Manhattan.
 
j-mac said:
Yeah, let's just focus on kitty cats, and flowers.....That's all we need, some good distractions.


j-mac
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we have distractions, obama's birth and his religion. thanks for providing them.
 
MrVicchio said:
It helps explain how he thinks and what he believes in. It's a way for people to get to know a person they only see on TV.

Remember the "Palin's CRAZY CHURCH" crap? Don't recall many here defending Obama jumping to Palin's D... but then it's OKAY to attack her ;)
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I think it has been shown that there is a wide spectrum of belief under the tent of Islam, much like there is under the tent of Christianity.

And no, I don't remember the Palin church thing, but I don't doubt that it happened. It's no more justified than any other criticism of religion, in my opinion, so long as that religion does not affect policy. If it does, I think the door has been opened for legitimate criticism.
 
Coronado said:
Maybe you can answer the question of why Obama's religion matters?
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"...[D]oing the Lord's work is a thread that's run through our politics since the very beginning. And it puts the lie to the notion that the separation of church and state in America means faith should have no role in public life. Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural without its reference to 'the judgments of the Lord.' Or King's 'I Have a Dream' speech without its reference to 'all of God's children.' Or President Kennedy's Inaugural without the words, 'here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own.' At each of these junctures, by summoning a higher truth and embracing a universal faith, our leaders inspired ordinary people to achieve extraordinary things."


do you know who said that?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
"...[D]oing the Lord's work is a thread that's run through our politics since the very beginning. And it puts the lie to the notion that the separation of church and state in America means faith should have no role in public life. Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural without its reference to 'the judgments of the Lord.' Or King's 'I Have a Dream' speech without its reference to 'all of God's children.' Or President Kennedy's Inaugural without the words, 'here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own.' At each of these junctures, by summoning a higher truth and embracing a universal faith, our leaders inspired ordinary people to achieve extraordinary things."


do you know who said that?
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Barack Obama. Relevance?
 
VanceMack said:
I think if you look at how people live their lives BEFORE they are in the public eye and how they live their faith you get a good general feel of what they really are. MOST politicians 'find God' right before an election...pandering to congregations for votes.

Obama...well...he sat in a hate filled race mongers church for 20 years and denied hearing any of it. I believe him of of course...I'll take him at his word. But only because I doubt he was paying much attention. OR...he is lying and he was full on engaged...you choose...hell...I dont care.
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But you still haven't answered the question, so let me ask it another way...

In your opinion, did any of the former U.S. President since Reagan use their religion to garner (your) vote(s)? (For the older crowd, we can go back as far as JFK or Ike if you prefer.) If so, which one(s)? And why do you believe that said President's proclaimation of his religious preference was anymore disengenuious than any other before him? What about his conduct lead you to believe he was lying about being a follower of the religion he claim to be a believere of?

Note: The issue now seems to be that the President isn't who he claims to be based on his public pronouncement of his choosen religious faith. So, now I would like to know what makes his pronouncement any less believable than his predecessors. Again, those who don't believe he is a Christian, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not putting you down for it. So, please don't misunderstand me here. I'm simply wondering why is it so difficult for people to take him at face value whereas it was so easy for us to accept ALL other Presidents who came before him?
 
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j-mac said:
Seems your leader answered your question for ya....he thinks it has relevance.....Even if you don't.
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My leader has not been quoted on this thread.

Please show me where Obama's supposed Islamic faith influences his policy decisions.
 
Zyphlin said:
I'm not saying Muslims may not view him as being born Muslim.

I'm saying that he doesn't self identify as a Muslim and thus its ridiculous for a non-muslim to suggest that he was a muslim based on a religion they dont' even follows edict.

Unless you subscribe to every other edict Islam proclaims Tex
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I don't subscribe to anything Zyphlin. I simply recognize what the religion says about children born into their faith.

I find it just as rediculus to ignore how a religion views a child, NOT an adult.
 
Coronado said:
Maybe you can answer the question of why Obama's religion matters?
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j-mac said:
"...[D]oing the Lord's work is a thread that's run through our politics since the very beginning. And it puts the lie to the notion that the separation of church and state in America means faith should have no role in public life. Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural without its reference to 'the judgments of the Lord.' Or King's 'I Have a Dream' speech without its reference to 'all of God's children.' Or President Kennedy's Inaugural without the words, 'here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own.' At each of these junctures, by summoning a higher truth and embracing a universal faith, our leaders inspired ordinary people to achieve extraordinary things."


do you know who said that?


j-mac
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Coronado said:
Barack Obama. Relevance?
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j-mac said:
Seems your leader answered your question for ya....he thinks it has relevance.....Even if you don't.


j-mac
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I just wanted to put the matter of the question asked in its proper context. On the face of it, yes, it would appear that placing one's faith in God does matter to President Obama. As far as I'm concerned that's a good thing.

texmaster said:
I don't subscribe to anything Zyphlin. I simply recognize what the religion says about children born into their faith.

I find it just as rediculus to ignore how a religion views a child, NOT an adult.
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But again I ask what does this have to do with Barrack H. Obama, Jr., the man!? Not the child, but the man? If he has renounced Islam as a man, what difference does it make what his old religion - that which was thrust upon him as a child - have to do with how he conducts himself now as a man?

You're doing the same exact song-N-dance Rev. F. Graham has done. No matter how truthful he may have been concerning the religious lineage of Islam, if the individual renounces said faith, what does it matter now what faith he was born into? Let me explain why this line of questioning is relevent...

In post #198, j-mac posted the Islamic definition of "Apostasy" - (in short) to turn away from or renounce your religions, towit, Islam. He then posted a list of ways inwhich someone who may not have renounce Islam may be clever enough to hide among us pretending to be something they are not. This is what I believe Rev. F. Graham was attempting to get at...a play on words yet still lamenting that we have a "closet Muslim in the White House" in essentially stating that "born a Muslim, always a Muslim". So, I ask how can one renounce Islam yet continue to disguise his true faith as the highest level public figure in this country? How is it possible that his turning towards Mecca goes un-notices? That it goes un-notices that he prostrate himselve five times a day? That he reads from the Qu'ran regularly? That he doesn't eat pork? How does all these things go un-notices?
 
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