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Thread: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Snide comment aside...it doesnt change the fact that he offered an alternative solution...something no one else in this case has done.
    If I'm not mistaken, neither the Imam or his wife are even willing to meet and discuss a different location. I really thought Patterson's offer was going to be the answer to this mess.
    All it's done is raise more questions about their motives.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    I apologize if this has already been stated.

    Since religion is based on faith and submission to a higher power how can someone that doesn't know about or practice the religion (like a newborn) be follower of the religion?
    Last edited by Gibberish; 08-24-10 at 05:52 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I apologize if this has already been stated.

    Since religion is based on faith and submission to a higher power how can someone that doesn't know about or practice the religion (like a newborn) be follower of the religion?
    Read the OP quote and you will see your position agrees with reverand Graham.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Read the OP quote and you will see your position agrees with reverand Graham.
    Graham appears to be saying the exact opposite of what I just said. Graham stated that Obama was born Muslim and later renounced the religion and then doubtfully suggests Obama is a Christian.

    I am saying specifically that no one can be born religious. Religion is a learned ideal, not an instinct.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Graham appears to be saying the exact opposite of what I just said. Graham stated that Obama was born Muslim and later renounced the religion and then doubtfully suggests Obama is a Christian.

    I am saying specifically that no one can be born religious. Religion is a learned ideal, not an instinct.
    And if you have followed ANY of this thread you would recognize that whether YOU agree with it or not there ARE Muslim sects that believe born a muslim once a muslim, always a muslim, and denouncing the muslim faith is tantamount to signing your own death certificate. 'I' dont agree with them...you dont...but THEY do. Hence the confusion part. The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.
    Obama was never a Muslim to begin with to denounce his "Muslim faith". He never had the faith to begin with, I don't recall him ever mentioning he prayed or fasted or gave zakhat!

    If tomorrow I left Islam and converted to Christianity then yes I denounced my "Muslim faith" because prior to that, I followed the pillars of Islam

    He just converted to Christianity.


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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Obama was never a Muslim to begin with to denounce his "Muslim faith". He never had the faith to begin with, I don't recall him ever mentioning he prayed or fasted or gave zakhat!

    If tomorrow I left Islam and converted to Christianity then yes I denounced my "Muslim faith" because prior to that, I followed the pillars of Islam

    He just converted to Christianity.
    So NO Muslims believe you are born into your fathers faith?

    I think it has been pretty well established...not ALL muslim sects, like not all Christian sects...view things the same way. Because you or I personally disagree with it doesnt make it real to others. Nor does it necessarily make it real to Obama...lets accept that as well. I dont think thats what Graham was saying.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So NO Muslims believe you are born into your fathers faith?

    I think it has been pretty well established...not ALL muslim sects, like not all Christian sects...view things the same way. Because you or I personally disagree with it doesnt make it real to others. Nor does it necessarily make it real to Obama...lets accept that as well. I dont think thats what Graham was saying.
    Ofc some do ... doesn't mean they are right tho.
    As that isn't what makes someone a Muslim according to the Qu'ran and hadiths. The articles and pillars are the foundation of what makes someone a Muslim. Not having the luck of being born by the semen of a man who happens to be a Muslim.


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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila;1058941181[B
    ]Ofc some do ... doesn't mean they are right tho.[/B]
    As that isn't what makes someone a Muslim according to the Qu'ran and hadiths. The articles and pillars are the foundation of what makes someone a Muslim. Not having the luck of being born by the semen of a man who happens to be a Muslim.
    I think thats all that was being said. Some do...and some have no real understanding whatsoever of ANY of the what the Muslim people actually believe. And THAT is one of the reasons why there are so many problems.

    And look...lets be honest...thats JUST one of the reasons. Accepting that there are a LOT on the radical right that are willing to believe ANYTHING about Obama the fact is he INVITES this kind of thing. He promised 'transparency...thats out the window. He makes appeasement statements on his trips to the middle east. Hell the question of his very birth was dragged out for years and HE bears the blame. His school records...vanished. His school writings...vanished. Hell people can find out more about ME online in a few keystrokes then they can about him. He makes up stories (some people call that lying) to play to whichever crown he is hanging out with...

    bah...I still dont believe he is a Christian. Or a Muslim.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And if you have followed ANY of this thread you would recognize that whether YOU agree with it or not there ARE Muslim sects that believe born a muslim once a muslim, always a muslim, and denouncing the muslim faith is tantamount to signing your own death certificate. 'I' dont agree with them...you dont...but THEY do. Hence the confusion part. The SUPPORTIVE part is reverand Graham acknowledging he has DENOUNCED the muslim faith and accepted Christ and therefore a Christian.
    Was Obama part of these specific Muslim denominations? If Mormons (who are Christians) believe everyone is born Mormon does that mean all Christians are born Mormon until they denounce the Mormon religion and choose another denomination?
    Last edited by Gibberish; 08-24-10 at 07:09 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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